Lindsay Clancy defense demands mistrial over her Catholic faith being invoked by witness

Reddington says he believes the jury will listen to the judge's instructions on disregarding testimony on Clancy's Catholic faith as the trial inches closer to deliberations.

"It’s a trial, you never know — up and down, you’re happy, you’re not — who knows?" Reddington told reporters. "Yeah, it’s been a good trial. The evidence has come out and I feel pretty good about it.”

Asked whether the comments could provide an option for an appeal, the defense attorney said he would rather not say. An appeal means Clancy has to be found guilty first, which Reddington said he's prefer didn't happen.

He also said that Clancy "doesn't have a mindset" at the moment.

"She just listens and sits there," he said.

As Heilbrun began talking about mortal sin and Clancy's Catholicism, Reddington could be seen throwing his pen down on the table.

Clancy and her parents did not appear to react to the comments.

As the drama of the mistrial motion unfolded, the crowd in the courtroom began whispering. This drew an admonition from an officer that court was still in session and spectators should remain quiet.

A statement from a forensic psychologist regarding Catholicism's view of suicide led to a fiery courtroom moment just as the trial was coming to a close.

Heilbrun was speaking to his evaluation that Clancy's case and her understanding of what is immoral. He said that Clancy reported that she told each of her children to "go with God" while killing them.

"And that was part of her expectation: that she and the children would be together in heaven with God," Heilbrun said. "She was raised as a Catholic, and, as I understand Catholic considerations, that's not necessarily what happens."

The judge paused the testimony moments later, when Heilbrun said he asked Clancy whether suicide was a "mortal sin."

Reddington previously objected to the injection of Catholic teachings on "mortal sin" when prosecution cross-examined Clancy's mother-in-law last week. Judge William Sullivan also instructed jury members to strike it from the record in that instance.

Judge William Sullivan gave an emphatic instruction to jurors to dismiss Heilbrun's testimony regarding Clancy's Catholic upbringing.

"The religion that the defendant was raised with is absolutely an inappropriate area of testimony," Sullivan said. "It is to be stricken. It is not to be considered. I can't be any more clear of that. It cannot be considered."

He added that Heilbrun's understanding of Catholic teaching is irrelevant and immaterial.

The jury was dismissed for the rest of the day and will return tomorrow to continue Heilbrun's testimony.

Reddington submitted a motion for a mistrial based on the prosecution witness bringing up Clancy's Catholic faith, describing it as "intentional misconduct."

Prior to a recess, Heilbrun described that he found Clancy's statements about her children "going to God" after their death as contrary to her Catholic religion's belief. It was part of his evaluation of Clancy's view of moral wrong.

Prosecutors said the witness was not intending to be inflammatory and asked that the jury be instructed to dismiss the statements from Heilbrun on her religion.

The judge denied the mistrial motion, siding with the prosecution that the jury will be told to disregard the comments on Clancy's faith. He will then dismiss them for the day.

"I'm going to tell them that's an inappropriate area of inquiry, and that this witness' understanding of Catholic dogma or Catholic teaching is irrelevant," the judge said.

When Patrick Clancy returned home from errands to the crime scene, Heilbrun noted it was interesting that Lindsay Clancy, when asked what she did, told her husband that she tried to kill herself.

She didn't mention the hallucinations, or the fact that her children were dead in the basement, he pointed out.

This, he said, leads him to think this was not a case of "altruistic filicide," which is when a mother kills her children because she fears for their safety or well-being when she is gone.

Instead, he said, it seemed like an extreme suicide attempt.

There were a few points in Clancy's description of her auditory hallucination on Jan. 24, 2024 that made Heilbrun believe she could potentially be exaggerating or fabricating the symptom.

“So, there were about three points on which her account more closely resembled exaggerated or fabricated hallucinations,” the forensic psychologist testified. “One where it looked more genuine, and one that was kind of mixed.”

Clancy described the voice as an external one rather than in her own mind, which is consistent with a genuine auditory hallucination, Heilbrun testified. But she did not report any accompanied delusions, which is reported in about 88% of command hallucinations, he added.

Genuine hallucinations are also more consistent than intermittent, but Clancy only reported hearing the voice for about 18 to 20 minutes, Heilbrun testified. Clancy also didn't report any attempt to stop hearing the voice, which Heilbrun described as unusual.

One point that he described as mixed was the way in which she heard the hallucinations: an unfamiliar, male voice. Heilbrun described hallucinations as typically a familiar voice, but he added that he was not counting this point "as one direction or another."

Heilbrun outlined some inconsistencies in Clancy's account of hearing voices that instructed her to kill herself and her children.

According to Clancy's telling, on the night of Jan. 24, 2023, she heard a voice repeatedly telling her, “This is your last chance. You have to kill the kids so you can kill yourself."

But she would later say she also heard such things as "the children will suffer without you" or "you have to take the kids with you," he said.

Forensic psychologist Dr. Kirk Heilbrun on the witness stand today. Greg Derr / Pool via AP

If Clancy truly did hear a voice on Jan. 24, 2023, as she has described, that could be an example of a command hallucination, Heilbrun testified.

Clancy said she heard a voice that said, "This is your last chance. You have to kill the kids so you can kill yourself." That would be an example of a psychosis symptom, Heilbrun said. But Heilbrun noted that Clancy has never experienced an auditory hallucination before or after the short period of time on the day she killed her children.

"To put it mildly, that would be a very, very unusual pattern or manifestation of how this kind of thing comes about," Heilbrun said.

He added that he's careful when someone says they experience a symptom "only during the course of committing an offense," because it can be a "convenient" way to avoid culpability.

In offering potential explanations for why Clancy may have harmed her children before attempting to kill herself, Heilbrun explained how sometimes, when someone wants to take their own life, they might harm their children, too, if they thought it would prevent the children from suffering.

He used the example of the Holocaust to make his point in court.

"If one of us were to learn, and we had no doubt in our mind, that the Holocaust was coming tomorrow, and we thought that was going to be awful, and I can’t live through that, and so I’m going to take my own life," Heilbrun started. "If I had children, the question might come up: Do I take them with me? Do I take their lives as well?"

While Heilbrun said that the patient won't always necessarily do that, it might come up as a possibility in their thought process.

"So there ended up being in my mind two possible explanations for why she did what she did," Heilbrun said. "The first being the acute psychosis with command hallucinations, and the second being this was a serious suicide attempt, and she wanted the children to be with her so she wouldn’t be separated from them, and so they wouldn’t have to suffer after she was gone."

Clancy was on a one-to-one suicide risk — the highest risk level — for three years and still remains at risk for suicide, according to Heilbrun.

He noted that's a long time to remain at an elevated risk for suicide.

Heilbrun also said Clancy is a "bright woman" who is likely to underreport "in terms of what's really wrong with her."

The court has returned from the roughly hourlong break to resume the testimony of Dr. Kirk Heilbrun, a forensic psychologist who diagnosed Clancy with bipolar II disorder.

The courtroom this morning was mostly full with media, spectators and Clancy’s parents, who were sitting a few rows behind her.

The jury seemed to be listening intently to the witness testimony. Some jurors had notebooks and appeared to take notes.

Clancy, though, did not appear to react to any of today's testimony.

The judge paused Heilbrun's testimony to call for a break. He dismissed the jury and asked that they return at 2 p.m. ET.

Clancy suffers from bipolar II disorder, a classification of the disorder that is not associated with mania, according to a diagnosis by Heilbrun.

He described it as being a difficult diagnosis because she had depressive episodes, but Clancy did not describe instances that seemed like mania to Heilbrun. The times in which she was higher energy appeared to just be Clancy feeling good, he added.

"She felt really close to them, her husband, and her kids," he said. "But it's also something that didn't look like a manic episode so much as it looked like she was really feeling good and getting back into exercise and things like that."

There may be examples of hypomania with bipolar II, which would be instances of racing thoughts and high moods, but that is distinct from manic episodes. Mania is a more severe symptom that can sometimes cause a break from reality, or psychosis, according to the Mayo Clinic.

Heilbrun detailed Clancy's mental health history after the birth of her third child, Callan, in 2022. He described her feelings of anxiety and depression when she had to leave her son, namely because she was breastfeeding him, and she worried about his ability to eat without her.

Clancy then began taking Zoloft, prompting immediate difficulty, Heilbrun said, recounting the symptoms and treatments in the lead-up to the death of Clancy's children months later in January 2023.

He also recounted her difficulty sleeping, racing thoughts and loss of appetite throughout the fall of 2022 as she continued to seek treatment from various doctors and medical centers.

By late Fall, Heilbrun said Clancy thought she was close to "what she called the end of her rope." He said she reported panic symptoms, concerns about being addicted or dependent on benzodiazepines, feeling disoriented, forgetful and disconnected from her body.

The "horrible intrusive thoughts" about harming herself began in late November and continued into December. In January, she started to have thoughts about harming her children, he said.

Clancy's self-reported experience with mental illness was limited before September 2022, according to Heilbrun.

The forensic psychologist spoke to Clancy in two interviews prior to trial, where he says Clancy explained her own history with mental health issues growing up. Heilbrun told the court that she only had instances of anxiety in nursing school and anxiety associated with each of her pregnancies.

"So after each child, she'd have some time off with a child, and then after several months, she would return ... she had some anxiety because she didn't like to leave her children," Heilbrun said.

Her childhood was also absent major traumas, such as abuse, the doctor stated.

The state called Dr. Kirk Heilbrun, a forensic psychologist who runs two clinics at Drexel University, to the witness stand.

He described his work at one of the clinics as conducting psychological evaluation for courts and attorneys. Heilbrun's other clinic is Reentry Project, which provides evaluation and treatment to individuals involved in the federal prison system.

The Lindsay Clancy trial picked up today on the cross examination of prosecution rebuttal witness Dr. Avram Mack. NBC News’ Steven Romo and legal analyst Misty Marris discuss takeaways from the morning’s testimony.

04:10

The prosecution spent its final minutes with Mack trying to reaffirm that Clancy was only diagnosed with postpartum depression and not postpartum psychosis.

During this questioning, Mack told the court he had a difficult time seeing Clancy himself while she was hospitalized.

Just before the court took a break, Reddington jumped in and questioned whether Mack was suggesting his office had any control on whether Mack could see Clancy.

"I don't know if your office was involved, but I imagine — I don't know," Mack said.

"You don't know. Alright, thank you," Reddington responded.

"I imagine your office was aware, but I don't know," Mack said before the judge dismissed him.

Court is now on a break until the next witness is called.

Lindsay Clancy watches as the jury enters the courtroom today. Greg Derr / Pool via AP

To wrap up a very combative line of questioning, Clancy's defense attorney continued to press Mack on the specifics of postpartum psychosis, which Mack continued to avoid saying it was a recognized diagnosis.

For his final question, Reddington asked about whether Clancy's thyroid should have been checked via bloodwork when doctors were prescribing her a number of different psychiatric medications over the course of just a few months.

Mack agreed generally but again rejected the framing of the question around postpartum psychosis, saying, "I’m not sure if that specifically answers your question."

Reddington, clearly frustrated, shot back: "I don’t care."

He then told the judge he was done with the witness.

The debate over postpartum psychosis and whether it is a true diagnosis continues, with the prosecution objecting to Reddington's line of questioning of Mack: "He has answered that question repeatedly."

Reddington sarcastically responded: "Really?"

The judge then urged Reddington to move on.

Multiple times, Reddington has asked Mack whether he recognizes postpartum psychosis as a diagnosis and whether he knows the symptoms of the disease.

But Mack has insisted he cannot answer those questions easily, and that women who have postpartum depression can experience psychosis, but that postpartum psychosis is not a true diagnosis.

Mack said the American Psychiatric Association only considers it a proposed illness at this point.

His refusal to recognize postpartum psychosis as a true diagnosis could hurt the defense, as their entire argument hinges on the fact Clancy was suffering from that mental illness.

Reddington, while discussing Clancy's diagnosis and treatment with Mack, asked the doctor to stop referring to the DSM — the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders published by the American Psychiatric Association.

But Mack said he couldn't leave it out, because all diagnoses are based on the DSM.

"Maybe we shouldn't," Reddington suggested, prompting prosecutors to object. It was sustained.

Reddington pressed Mack on Clancy's diagnosis and what that could mean for a postpartum depression or postpartum psychosis diagnosis.

Mack kept calling her condition "postpartum" without labeling it as one of the mental diseases that plague women after they give birth, stating that the "postpartum onset" happens within four weeks.

But Reddington pointed out a flaw in the doctor's testimony. He said postpartum simply means a woman had a child and that, technically, mothers are postpartum their entire lives.

"Postpartum is not a disease, doctor," he said. Amid this exchange, the judge — again — directed Mack to answer the questions he was asked.

Dr. Mack appeared hesitant to answer some of Reddington's questions, responding frequently, "I said this the other day," referring to his first day of testimony on Friday.

Reddington appeared to scoff each time Mack said it and had to push him to answer the questions, finally not taking that response as acceptable.

"Why don’t you say it again, sir?" he snapped.

Defense attorney Kevin Reddington cross examines Dr. Avram Mack today. Greg Derr / Pool via AP

Reddington pressed Mack on the "K Scale," which Mack eventually described as a test used by providers to determine whether patients are exaggerating or lying about their mental health symptoms.

But he seemed unwilling to answer Reddington's line of questioning, at one point flashing a smile over Zoom.

"What are you smiling for? This is not funny, sir," Reddington shot back.

After a lengthy and contentious back and forth over questions posed by Reddington, Judge William Sullivan interjected to keep proceedings on topic.

“Doctor please. Listen to the question, and answer the question," Sullivan commanded.

It came after Reddington pressed Mack on how much money he makes a year.

To kick off proceedings on Monday, defense attorney Kevin Reddington quickly got into a testy exchange with a witness..

The trial picked up on the cross examination of prosecution rebuttal witness Dr. Avram Mack. The first part of Reddington's questioning largely focused on Mack's history of serving as a witness in criminal court cases.

The exchange quickly got testy, with Mack appearing to misremember or disagree with most of Reddington's questions.

When Mack said he disagreed with one of the questions, Reddington shot back, "Says you."

NBC News is waiting to enter the Massachusetts courtroom before what is expected to be the final week of Clancy's trial begins.

There’s a growing line of at least 25 people waiting to get inside. Outside, the energy is high, and there is a lot of chatter from onlookers.

Prosecutors have had one rebuttal witness on the stand so far, and at least two more are expected. They’ve been called to help combat the final defense witness, Dr. Phillip Resnick. Resnick testified that he believes Clancy was living with bipolar disorder and was experiencing postpartum psychosis when she killed her three children and tried to take her own life three years ago.

“In her mind, she believed that she would be doing her children a favor by having them go to heaven with her rather than remain on earth without her doing the mothering,” he testified.

The first rebuttal witness, Dr. Avram Mack, concluded that Clancy probably suffered from a major depressive episode and anxiety. He said there was no evidence she ever experienced a manic state, which is a key consideration of a bipolar diagnosis.

The defense has argued that Lindsay was overmedicated. Mack also addressed this point, doing a deep dive into the medications she was taking. He concluded that while it’s true she did feel side effects, that feeling isn’t necessarily psychotic.

Read the full story here.

Three mothers who survived postpartum psychosis describe their experiences with the condition — and what they want people following the Lindsay Clancy trial to know.

“I honestly found my experience humbling because it was a reminder that psychosis does not care about your status or your age or your socioeconomic position,” Ayana Lage, 33, said about her 2020 experience. “It can truly happen to anyone.”

Read the full story here.

03:16

Onlookers today showed up at court in Massachusetts for what is set to be one of the final days of Clancy's murder trial, in which a jury will determine whether she is criminally responsible for killing her three children.

The case has garnered national attention and become a cultural flashpoint, as true crime-obsessed social media users debate the facts in real time. Last week, hundreds in support of Clancy gathered outside of the courtroom.

On the fourth day of Lindsay Clancy’s murder trial, prosecutors played the six-minute 911 call her husband made in January 2023 after he returned home and found their three children dead in the basement of their Duxbury home.

Sitting in her wheelchair at the defense table, Clancy kept her head down and then began to sob while holding her defense lawyer’s hand.

The interaction between Kevin Reddington and his client went seemingly unnoticed inside the Massachusetts courtroom, where Clancy is on trial accused of fatally strangling her three children before throwing herself out of the window in a suicide attempt that has left her paralyzed from the waist down.

Defense attorney Kevin Reddington holds the hand of Lindsay Clancy in court on July 29. David L. Ryan / Boston Globe via Getty Images

But the move illustrated the unique style of the white-haired 75-year-old lawyer, who has spent decades representing clients with a no-nonsense defense strategy that has captured the hearts and minds of online viewers and true-crime fanatics enthralled by the livestreamed trial.

“The internet met Kevin Reddington three weeks ago, but he has been running this defense since 1989,” Molly McPherson, a New England-based crisis communications strategist and host of “The PR Breakdown,” told NBC News.

Read the full story here.

The final days of testimony in Lindsay Clancy's murder trial are expected to begin this week. On Friday, the prosecution began to call rebuttal witnesses after the defense rested its case.

Prosecutors have had one rebuttal witness on the stand so far, and at least two more are expected, according to NBC Boston.

In the months before Lindsay Clancy killed her three children, she sought help from multiple mental health providers, went to an emergency room and spent time at a psychiatric hospital. Her defense says she was prescribed 13 medications over four months as her mental health deteriorated.

Here’s a timeline of Clancy’s treatment and efforts to get help before the killings.

As closing arguments get underway, the central question facing jurors is not whether Lindsay Clancy killed her three young children, but whether she can be held criminally responsible for their deaths.

The closely watched trial has focused on Clancy’s mental health, her treatment in the months before the killings, and the defense’s argument that she was experiencing postpartum psychosis.

Read the full story here.