Summary
DOJ opposes Trump request for special master. Judge schedules
hearing tomorrow to consider trump`s special master request. John Fetterman
sits down for first national interview since stroke. Crime becomes focus in
Pennsylvania senate race. NBC News: Democrat Mary Peltola defeats Sarah
Palin in Alaska special election.
Transcript
LAWRENCE O`DONNELL, MSNBC HOST: By four points. Tonight, on the 11th Hour
Stephanie Ruhle will have an exclusive interview with Pennsylvania Senate
candidate John Fetterman. That is tonight`s Last Word. The 11th Hour with
Stephanie Ruhle starts now.
STEPHANIE RUHLE, MSNBC HOST: Tonight, my exclusive interview with
Democratic Senate candidate John Fetterman. His first since having a
stroke, he talks his health, his state, and why he`s game to troll Dr. Oz
on the internet, but not on the debate stage.
Then breaking news as the Trump team responds to a blistering Justice
Department defense in case of top-secret documents at Mar-a-Lago. Plus,
Sarah Palin loses a special election and Democrats pick up a House seat in
deep red Alaska, at least for the next 68 days. As the 11th Hour gets
underway on this Wednesday night.
Good evening once again, I`m Stephanie Ruhle. Tonight, I spoke with
Pennsylvania Democratic candidate for Senate John Fetterman. His first TV
interview since having a stroke and update on his health and how his
campaign against Trump back Dr. Oz is going.
But we start this evening`s broadcast with breaking news in the
investigation at Mar-a-Lago. The next phase of the battle between the
Justice Department and Donald Trump will take place in a Florida courtroom
tomorrow. Both sides will appear before a Trump appointee judge, Aileen
Cannon. She`ll be the one to decide whether to grant the former president`s
plea for a special master to go through those documents that were seized in
his Florida home.
Just a few hours ago, his legal team filed its response to the Department
of Justice`s objections to having a third party review those documents,
citing the need for, "independent attorney client privilege assessments and
executive privilege determinations."
In a court filing revealed at this very hour last night, the Justice
Department said a special master was not needed and revealed a whole lot of
damning new evidence against the former president, including this image of
top secret and sensitive documents which the government says it seized from
inside Trump`s office. We`ll get more from our own Kelly O`Donnell.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KELLY O`DONNELL, NBC NEWS SENIOR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The Department
of Justice in a court filing lays out serious allegations in stark new
terms that government records were likely concealed and removed and that
efforts were likely taken to obstruct the government`s investigation. The
DOJ alleges Team Trump provided inaccurate information when they turned
over 38 classified materials at a June 3 meeting, citing this declaration,
where an unnamed Trump associate swore that a diligent search was completed
to locate any and all documents subpoenaed. However, the FBI developed
evidence that dozens of additional boxes remain. Then August 8, the day of
the search, the FBI found over 100 unique documents with classification
markings, including three classified documents that were not located in
boxes, but discovered loose in desk drawers in the 45 office. Pointing to
the gravity of secrets, the DOJ said some FBI counterintelligence personnel
and DOJ attorneys required additional clearances to even review the
documents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: While Trump appears to be facing serious legal Jeopardy, two of his
lawyers Evan Corcoran and Christina Bobb could come under scrutiny from the
Department of Justice on their own. The New York Times reporting they`re
likely to become witnesses or targets the federal investigation.
With that we`ve got a lot to get to, so let`s get smarter with the help of
our leadoff panel. Yamiche Alcindor joins us, NBC News Correspondent and
Moderator of Washington Week on PBS. Professor Melissa Murray of NYU Law
School, she was a law clerk for Sonia Sotomayor on the federal bench before
her nomination to the Supreme Court, and our dear friend Jeremy Peters,
Reporter for the New York Times and author of the new book, "Insurgency:
How Republicans Lost Their Party and Got Everything They Ever Wanted."
Melissa, walk us through this, Trump`s legal team has now made their move,
break it down for us.
MELISSA MURRAY, NYU LAW PROFESSOR: So this is again, a little bit better
than the initial filing that they made before Judge Cannon but not much
better. It starts off by arguing that there is appropriate jurisdiction
here because the President does have standing and the argument seems to be
that because the Presidential Records Act has no enforcement mechanism.
There was no reason and no enforcement mechanism for the government to
remove those documents from Mar-a-Lago.
Of course, this leaves aside the fact that when the government recovered
those documents from Mar-a-Lago in the search and seizure effort, they were
actually acting under a search warrant that identified several other
statutes beyond the Presidential Records Act. Those are not mentioned in
this filing at all.
[23:05:06]
The filing also notes that it`s not going to get into any of the DOJ`s
notes about the timeline, the back and forth between the Trump
administration about the recovery of these documents, and indeed about the
DOJ`s bombed. So they dropped last night that many of the documents might
have been part of a mission to be moved or to obstruct the investigation
going forward. All of that the Trump attorneys say they`re going to leave
to the side. That`s quite a lot to leave to the side, even as you`re asking
for the court to appoint a special master. And so, judge cannon will take
this up tomorrow in that courtroom in Florida. And the question will
remain, if there`s already been a review of privilege thus far by the FBI,
what is the need for the special master going forward? I`m not sure the
Trump team has adequately made the case in this filing.
RUHLE: Melissa, in the last hour, Neal Katyal said this move by Trump`s
lawyers, it`s not a real legal filing. It`s a PR filing. Do you agree with
that?
MURRAY: I think a lot of the filings have been more like rants than typical
legal filings. I will say that this one is marginally better than the
initial filing for the special master that was made before Judge Cannon.
But again, as I said, when we talked about that earlier filing, it was
pretty shoddy. So the bar is really on the floor. And this is slightly
better. But that`s faint, praise.
RUHLE: Yamiche, Trump has been all over social media for the last few days,
is this a window into what`s going on in his world right now? Just bang,
bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, bang, as he`s watching cable news and
avoiding lawyers` calls?
YAMICHE ALCINDOR, PBS WASHINGTON WEEK MODERATOR: Stephanie, I think that
that`s a good summary of what`s going on right now. And talking to people
who are close to President Trump, and just watching the way that he is sort
of dealing with this, he is continuing to deal with this legal issue as a
public relations issue. I mean, you`ve seen this sort of evolution, where
at first, he was calling it a hoax and saying that this was all made up.
And then when you have the actual pictures coming out showing the
documents, he`s then trying to mislead everyone by saying, well, really,
this is the FBI trying to make it look even worse, as if laying them --
laying up a document is somehow proving some malice on their part, when in
fact, this is just really sort of what law enforcement agencies do. We`ve
seen this, if anybody who`s covered policing or covered drug busts, this is
what police do. And we`ve now seen the president, the former president,
Donald Trump, now start to say, well, they took this out of cartons and
these documents were there.
Again, admitting them that these documents were there, that these
classified materials were there, I think that it`s going to be very
interesting to continue to see how the Republican Party and allies of
President Trump deal with this. Because as the evidence comes out, and as
it becomes even more clear of the sort of accusations that former President
Trump is facing, it seems as though that this is really going to be
morphing into even more of a legal problem here, even though when I talk to
people who are close to President Trump, and I talk to Republicans, they
don`t feel like this is going to be some sort of really serious in it`s
going to somehow politically hurt him to the point where he`s not going to
be the leader of the Republican Party. But of course, everything is still
unfolding as we speak.
RUHLE: Some Republicans might think that but others not so much. Former
Bush Adviser Karl Rove was on Fox News earlier tonight, and I want to share
what he said.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
KARL ROVE, FORMER BUSH ADVISER: Well, let`s just be clear on this, none of
these government documents are his to have taken. I agree with the deputy
director, who said that a lot of the former president`s problems are of his
own creation. You can`t -- under the Presidential Records Act of 1978 you
cannot take original documents with you when you leave the White House.
When there is the president of the United States or any of his aides, you
know -- that`s forbidden under the law.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: That appeared to be Karl Rove on Fox News, making the Department of
Justice`s argument, is this support starting to crumble over there, Jeremy?
JEREMY PETERS, THE NEW YORK TIMES REPORTER: Well, I think it within the
Republican Party, no. I mean, let`s not forget who Karl Rove is, right?
Like he`s a bush, Republican. And I think that under the Bush rules, which
were normal presidential rules, where you abide by the standards and the
norms of the office, and you have a respect for the office and a respect
for the rule of law, which President Trump does not. That`s exactly what
you would expect to happen. Of course, President Bush -- both Bushes gave
back the documents that were supposed to give, they never took them out of
the Oval Office, or the White House in the first place.
But President Trump has so obliterated the norms and the expectations that
his supporters and that most Republicans now have of a president that I
really don`t think Karl Rove`s words matter much here, like yeah, he can
sit there in Aspen and talk about this egregious wrong that President Trump
has committed, but it really doesn`t matter to his voters, to Trump`s
Voters and to most voters in the Republican Party at this point.
[23:10:03]
And if he were to be indicted for these document removals, which I don`t
think we see as a real possibility at this point. I mean, it`s a
theoretical thing, but the Georgia case is probably much more serious for
him, even if he were to be indicted on either one of those things. What
does that do, that just supercharges his momentum going into the Republican
nomination in 2024? The -- his voters don`t care about what laws he`s
broken. They see him as a victim because he tells them, that`s what he is.
And I just think that this is the reality we`re dealing with. We`re not
dealing with laws and norms and ethics. We`re dealing with his -- interpret
his -- the way he has presented himself as a constant victim, and somebody
who is perpetually agreed.
RUHLE: Yes, but of course, there are not enough of those Trump voters to
have kept him in office. If there were, he wouldn`t have needed to steal
any documents and bring them to his house in Florida. He`d be living in
Washington and no surprise, Trump`s biggest allies are doing what right
now, bringing up Hillary Clinton.
I want to share our own Hallie Jackson has more on that part of the story.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HALLIE JACKSON, NBC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Some conservatives have suggested
Mr. Trump should be held to the so-called Clinton standard, arguing if
Hillary Clinton was not prosecuted for her handling of classified
information. Mr. Trump should not be either.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I`ll take it in terms of the result.
JACKSON: But experts say this is not that for several reasons. For example,
the FBI at the time cited a lack of an effort to obstruct justice.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do not see those things here.
JACKSON: But in Mr. Trump`s situation, it`s complicated.
CHUCK ROSENBERG, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY: That investigation of Ms. Clinton is
over. And so, we know the facts. This investigation of Mr. Trump is
ongoing. And so, there`s plenty of stuff we don`t know.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Yamiche, just from what we do know, the DOJ evidence seems a lot
more damning that what we saw in the Hillary Clinton situation, are his
supporters really going to roll out about her emails again?
ALCINDOR: They`re certainly going to do that, and certainly are doing that,
Stephanie. And I think that crystal line, the crystallization of what`s
going on here was that line from Hallie Jackson`s reporting where it said,
this is not that and I think that that`s underscores to where we are, this
is not Hillary Clinton`s email. This is, according to these files much more
serious.
That being said, what we do know is that as Jeremy just said, Trump
supporters are going to do what Trump supporters do, which is rally around
him, they`re going to want to make sure that people think that he`s
continuing to be a victim. I was -- I`m just fresh off a trip to California
where I was interviewing some Republicans, and actually the ones that I
talked to, they were against former President Trump, they were saying that
he is problematic that he`s -- apart from sort of the document issues.
There`s big lying about the 2020 election. But they also acknowledged to
me, Stephanie, that they are an anomaly in this party. This party is a
party that is absolutely still taking and led by Donald Trump.
And what you see there on social media, what you see there in conversations
with Republicans who are close to the president is then continuing to make
the case that Hillary Clinton is a villain, that former President Trump is
in fact, someone who Democrats are just targeting and that the DOJ and FBI
are targeting because he -- they don`t want him to run for president again,
when in reality, we saw this week that there was real evidence there and
real probable cause, at least according to the DOJ to go into Mar-a-Lago.
And they did recover, at least by their accounting, these classified
documents. So, I think we have to go back to what Hallie Jackson said, this
is not that, but Republicans will continue to make that case.
RUHLE: And Republicans have yet to make any argument as to why he had any
of these documents to begin with.
Melissa, let`s talk about Trump`s lawyers, because it sounds like some of
them could be in trouble. Politico is reporting that one of his attorneys
signed a sworn statement for the New York AG that she had searched his
private residence for any of these records before the FBI search took
place. And obviously, there was a lot there. What kind of trouble could she
be in?
MURRAY: Well, a lot will turn on her state of mind. Stephanie. If she did
this and made that statement with knowledge that this was not the case,
obviously, that`s a really big problem for her. If she made the statement
based on information that was provided to her and she misrepresented
inadvertently, that`s a different story entirely. But right now, we don`t
know what her state of mind is. And that means she`s likely a target, if
not a possible prosecution and certainly as a witness to what went on
there.
And if in fact, she is a target of the DOJ and they`re thinking about
prosecuting her for false statements or making false statements to the
government, then I think it`s very unlikely that she`s going to want to be
in a position to go to jail over all of this. And that may mean she`s an
especially right target to be flipped as a cooperating witness for the
government.
[23:15:09]
So, her legal Jeopardy not only presents jeopardy for her, it ostensibly
presents some legal jeopardy for the former president. And I`m just going
to underscore I`ve been saying this all day, MAGA is not Make America Great
Again. It might actually be making attorneys get attorneys and that`s what
we`ve seen here.
RUHLE: Making attorneys get attorneys, as always every election every year,
every controversy, lawyers win, every damn time.
Yamiche Alcindor, Jeremy Peters, and our favorite lawyer Melissa Murray,
thank you so much.
When we come back, John Fetterman, he turned down Dr. Oz for a debate. But
he said yes to a sit down with us. His first national interview since his
stroke three months ago.
And later, another Trump endorsed candidate Sarah Palin goes down in
Alaska. A big upset as Democrats pick-up a seat they haven`t had in
decades. We`ll ask our political experts to tell us what this means, as the
11th Hour just getting underway on a busy Wednesday night.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:20:47]
RUHLE: He`s a lieutenant governor, a former mayor and right now the poll
leading Democratic nominee for the Senate from Pennsylvania. But there`s a
lot more to John Fetterman than that, the six-foot Fetterman is still on
the recovery track, after he suffered a stroke just days before winning his
primary back in May. And now his opponent TV, Dr. Mehmet Oz is trying to
use that to his advantage.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. MEHMET OZ (R) PENNSYLVANIA SENATE CANDIDATE: I`ve said all along as a
physician, I have tremendous empathy and compassion for how challenging it
is to bounce back from a stroke. I offer John Fetterman numerous
opportunities to explain to me how I can make it easier for him to debate.
But at this point, since he`s given numerous reasons for not showing up,
including the fact that didn`t have time in his schedule, I`m of the
opinion that he`s hiding his radical views.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: Well, I asked Dr. Mehmet Oz if he`d like to sit down for an
interview and he didn`t say yes. But John Fetterman did and I spoke with
the Lieutenant Governor and his wife, Gisele, just a few hours ago. Take a
look.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
RUHLE: John and Gisele, it is good to see you both. John, you and I know
one another relatively well. But we haven`t seen each other. We haven`t
spoken since your stroke back in May. How are you feeling?
JOHN FETTERMAN (D) PENNSYLVANIA SENATE CANDIDATE: Yeah. I`m feeling
amazing, actually, the truth is that I actually feel much better than I
have felt in quite a while, honestly, that`s the truth. Walking for five
miles every day, and making sure that we`re taking all the medication that
the doctors have all described, and just actually feel fantastic.
RUHLE: Gisele, John has credited you with saving his life. Was there ever a
point over the last few months, maybe even today, where you`re saying, why
are you running for office, focus on your health and our family?
GISELE FETTERMAN, SECOND LADY OF PENNSYLVANIA: No, I mean, I waited to see
what the doctors thought, you know, I`m not a doctor, the doctors all said
that he will make a full recovery and that he`s more than in fit and shape
to do this to take the sun. And I`ve always thought if you have the ability
to make lives better, it`s your duty to do so. And I`ve seen John make
lives better, so many times. And I think that`s what he`s supposed to do.
So, I support them. And yes, I did save his life, and I will never let him
forget that.
J. FETTERMAN: Yeah, she did save my life. And then I, you know, it`s that`s
the truth, she recognized that I was in the middle of a stroke. And even at
the time, I was still committing to wanting to go to a campaign event. But
I`m just so grateful that I not only that I survived because I was close to
this top stroke facility. And I was able to get there quickly. And that has
allowed me to survive and to be now running a very successful campaign
right now as a result. And the only lingering issue is every now and then I
will have auditory processing. And I might miss a word every now and then.
Or I might mush two words together anything but that`s really the effect
now.
RUHLE: Does that mean you`re having any neurological problems, I mean, to
not be able to hear a word here and there, one might think there`s other
problems besides just that, or it`s connected to something more serious?
J. FETTERMAN: It`s just that, it`s just basic auditory processing. And
there`s expecting to have a full recovery over the next several months too.
Remember that just a little over three months ago, I was in a stroke that
really would have ended my life. But unfortunately, I was particularly to
the hospital. So, I just remind everybody that my health now is robust, and
I`m able to live a normal life, driving, going to the grocery store. Not
looking for accreditation, but you know, nobody can really, you know, see a
difference between the life the way I`m, you know, leading. It`s just the
fact that every now and then I`m going to miss a word or mush together and
that continues to get better and better.
G. FETTERMAN: And I think --
RUHLE: Your opponent -- yes?
G. FETTERMAN: Sorry. I was going to save, you know, like any other American
family that has a health crisis, dealings differences that we`ve had to
heal through it very publicly.
[23:25:06]
RUHLE: Republicans, opponents are -- they`re making the argument that
you`re too sick to govern. You said, they think it`s funny to mock your
recovery. How do you convince voters you can do this job?
J. FETTERMAN: First, their approach, I always just would say, desperation
is the worst cologne. And they understand that Dr. Oz this campaign is in
shambles. Whether you look at the polls, you look at the fundraising, you
know, they`ve just figured out that, you know, let`s appeal to folks that
get their jollies, you know, making fun of the stroke dude.
And again, if that`s your story, tell it the way you got to. But he really
should own those words. And he should just acknowledge that as a doctor,
you are going around making fun of somebody that had a stroke. And when you
look around and realize that there`s Pennsylvanians all across the state
that have serious health crises in their own life, and I don`t think
anybody would want a doctor in their lives, making fun of them or laughing
at their circumstances, but I just happen to have a doctor in my life to do
just that.
RUHLE: You turned down Dr. Oz`s invitation to debate. What made you come to
that decision? And do you think you`ll debate him before the election?
J. FETTERMAN: Oh, again, as I just said, this is just a sad approach at
this point, because they are trying to not focus on the condition of their
campaign right now. And when they want to get into a serious conversation,
and really talk about having a debate, I`d be happy to engage in that. But
right now, the fact that they have chose me to have a deeply unserious
campaign to just ridicule somebody that is just recovering from a stroke.
RUHLE: Take me to the campaign trail, what are voters telling you is their
top issue. Because just a couple of months ago, it was all about gas prices
and inflation and issues some people said was the problem for from hell for
the President. Today, what are you hearing?
J. FETTERMAN: What I`m hearing is that when they are so glad to see that
I`m healthy and that it`s going great. And it`s astonishing that just a few
days ago, we were in Mercer County, a very deeply read County, and we had
450 people there, which is remarkable. And I think everyone`s excited
because they want a genuine, actual Pennsylvania resident, and somebody
that actually understands what are the important issues are. And I think
people also understand really what`s at stake in this -- at this election
right now.
And now with Dr. Oz, now just being caught saying that, you know, every
Abortion is murder. And right now, there`s a stark choice between us right
now, too. And people I think understand that.
RUHLE: Do people in Pennsylvania understand that? Because to your point,
Dr. Oz has flip flopped on abortion, but now he`s saying it is murder for
those who believe life starts at conception Doug Mastriano is running for
governor. He is against all abortions under any circumstances. Do
Pennsylvania voters know that abortion access could become an issue?
J. FETTERMAN: Nobody really knows what Dr. Oz believes. I don`t even think
Dr. Oz knows what he believes. Here`s that an individual that was fined
over a million dollars for selling magic diet pills now, so if you`re
willing to sell those kinds of products, and swindling people out of their
money, who knows what they really believe? And because right now is very
clear that this is a very one important election. But we stand on the right
side that I believe a majority of Pennsylvania voters understands.
RUHLE: Besides what Dr. Oz stands for, and what he`s offering, how do you
serve all Pennsylvania voters? It`s a very big state, right? Think about
Western PA, in Pittsburgh where the economy was thriving before COVID,
filled with tech companies and universities. There`s probably all sorts of
people, they`re thrilled about student debt forgiveness, but go 30 minutes
outside to Beaver County, where there`s likely voters who are saying, I
just wanted to kindergarten, I want to go to fifth grade. How do you serve
both voters? We`ve got a complicated economy, people want very different
things?
J. FETTERMAN: I just think people need to understand what that and be able
to recognize, you know, what their lives are really like. And we believe
and we know that we actually do that, very important too. And, you know,
living in western Pennsylvania, living across the street head actually the
way we`re having this interview right now, right across from a steel mill.
We have to understand that we all can`t work at Google or we can`t all be
working at a hospital. We have to make sure that we are making more stuff
here in Pennsylvania and in America and we also have to make sure that we
have to make sure that we address to an obscene minimum wage, and how can
we now running for the Senate, and you own 10 homes, and you are not
unwilling to raise a minimum wage above $7.25 an hour?
[23:30:22]
I mean, we all know that Dr. Oz does live in New Jersey. But the simple is
important to recognize how can you understand the life of a Pennsylvania
resident if you have nothing to be able to serve one that has no clue on
what life is like living here in Pennsylvania.
G. FETTERMAN: But also, being on the road -- read parts of the state and
blue parts of the state, we`re not really all that different, right? You
know, parents want their kids to go to a safe school. They want to be able
to retire comfortably. They want to be able to raise their families well,
so we do vary on issues. But at the end of the day, we`re a lot more
similar than not.
J. FETTERMAN: Yeah. You know, we`ve always run a very 67 County campaign.
You know, we`ve been to every one of Pennsylvania`s counties red or blue
four or five different times. And I`m pretty confident that Dr. Oz has even
been to every one of the counties, you know, because he is just parachuted
in, you know, less than a year ago.
RUHLE: Are you trying to win that deep red Maga voter? If you`ve got
someone who is still supporting Donald Trump, who just this week, said he
should be reinstated as president? Or Doug Mastriano, who was outside the
capitol on January 6, are you trying to win that voter?
J. FETTERMAN: No, we`re not trying to win a red county, I mean, this idea
that you`re going to turn an 80/20 Trump kind of county to blue, that`s not
the goal. The goal is to make sure that we are having the conversation with
every person here in Pennsylvania. And we are going to because we have been
able to jam up the margins in those as well, too. That`s the secret,
honestly.
And if you look at the results in the primary as well, out of 54 of the red
counties in Pennsylvania, our campaign, we got more than votes in the 25 of
these counties, more votes than Dr. Oz and his primary too. And that`s
remarkable. And that really demonstrates that one or plenty people there
that appeal to the kind of campaign that we`re running, and also
demonstrates how very little Dr. Oz has to offer a lot of these places as
well.
RUHLE: One thing that you are winning in before we go is trolling, hardcore
trolling, social media trolling, using New Jersey, using Snooki to go after
Oz. It`s obviously entertaining, it`s getting a lot of attention. But does
any of that matter to voters who care about their day to day lives?
J. FETTERMAN: Oh, absolutely. People do understand how it is very
important. How can you -- if you -- can`t if you can`t recognize a life
here in Pennsylvania, how unpossible can you go to D.C. to fight, to make a
life in Pennsylvania better. And it also the kind of campaign we run as
always is very -- it`s never nasty, you know, that`s a, you know, Gisele,
was always very inspiring in that way, too. It`s always kind. And it`s we
you know, we only traffic and truths too, whether you`re looking for
crudities or talking that Dr. Oz lives in New Jersey.
G. FETTERMAN: But if there was no fun in politics, right politics would
just be completely unbearable. So, we really are trying to normalize
kindness and politics. But fun, right, we have to have fun doing this. And
I think we`re doing it in the way that`s kind and it`s really drilling on
messaging. And it`s also reaching a demographic of folks who may not have
been engaged to vote and to participate. And we`re bringing them into the
loop and to our team as well.
J. FETTERMAN: And on nasty Dr. Oz continues to behave, you know, we`re not
going to respond with the same. And we`re just going to continue to running
the kind of campaign that we`ve always been running in all of 67 counties
here in Pennsylvania.
RUHLE: Well, it is good to see you both and good to see you in such good
health and on the road to recovery.
G. FETTERMAN: Thank you so much. Thanks for having us.
J. FETTERMAN: It`s so grateful to be here. Thank you so very much for
having us.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
RUHLE: And while Dr. Oz did not agree to sit down for an interview with me,
he will be joining the former president in just a couple of days on the big
stage in Pennsylvania. How is that going to play out with voters? When the
11th Hour continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:38:14]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Far left John Fetterman is too far left. He`s
dangerously liberal on crime.
J. FETTERMAN: Dr. Oz and his Gucci loafers is attacking me on crime. Dr. Oz
win last two hours here in Braddock.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: As you just saw crime is one of the big issues on the Pennsylvania
Senate race. And both candidates are hoping that it will help move the
needle. The latest Emerson College Poll gives Fetterman a narrower four
percentage point lead.
For more, let`s bring in Jon Allen, Senior National Politics Reporter for
NBC News and Stuart Stevens, Veteran of the Mitt Romney and George W. Bush
Presidential Campaigns. Now, with the Lincoln Project. Stuart, you have
worked with all sorts of campaigns over the years. Now, you got a close
look at John Fetterman, what do you think?
[23:40:00]
STUART STEVENS, THE LINCOLN PROJECT SENIOR ADVISER: I think it would be a
great campaign to work for. They are having fun and people -- it`s not a
bad sign of who`s going to win the campaign as to which candidate is
enjoying the campaign the most, people like what they`re doing well, and
when things are going well, and clearly, they are in the Fetterman
campaign.
Look, I think he got to hand it to these, that campaign. And to him,
they`re running us who the guy is. He`s not trying to change himself. And
it particularly matches well against a guy like Oz, who is just the sort of
cartoon character of somebody who has no idea why he`s running other than
just sort of naked ambition and can`t articulate any policy, which is a
general problem Republicans have and they`re beginning to realize it, they
don`t have any policy in this campaign.
RUHLE: Yeah, John Fetterman is not changing who he is. That guy wears a
hooded sweatshirt 365 days a year with shorts. Jon, I want you to take me
to the state of Pennsylvania because when I think of PA, I think of Western
Pennsylvania Rust Belt, I think of mainline Philly suburbs. So, explain the
Republican calculation to go so hardcore anti-abortion, whether it`s Dr.
Oz, or Doug Mastriano? Is that what Pennsylvania voters want?
JONATHAN ALLEN, NBC NEWS SENIOR NATIONAL POLITICS REPORTER: That`s a great
question, Stephanie. And let me just compliment you on that interview was a
fantastic interview from the perspective of news. And also, it was
interesting to watch Fetterman. I`ve covered the Senate for about 20 years.
And I would say he would be the upper echelon in terms of ability to
respond to questions among the senators. I`ve watched over that period of
time.
As far as Pennsylvania goes, look, most voters in Pennsylvania don`t think
that there should be a total ban on abortion, which is a position that Dr.
Oz has taken and took it may and now he`s trying to change that position.
That is seen as extreme by most Pennsylvania, the vast majority of
Pennsylvania voters as it is by the vast majority of American voters. And
that`s the question that`s on the table right now, before Roe was
overturned, before the Dobbs decision, there was a question of whether
abortion should be legal in most cases, based on the Supreme Court ruling
now that`s been reversed.
RUHLE: Stuart, Donald Trump has already endorsed Dr. Oz. Trump supporters
are going to be Trump supporters until the end. Oz joining Trump on a stage
in the next few days. Is that a good thing? Because this is a time when
there are independent voters that are up for grabs. And Trump`s only gone
one direction farther to the right?
STEVENS: Yeah, look, this is the Faustian bargain that Oz made, while the
whole Republican Party made her Trump. And what people forget about fastest
and that`s the stuff leads not only takes your soul, he doesn`t deliver on
what he promised. So, you`re damned if you do, if you`re inside the Oz
campaign and damned if you don`t, if you avoid Trump, it looks terrible.
And, you know, he`ll attack you. So, you`ve got to show up and you got to
be with the guy.
And look, this is an ideal setup for what Democrats wanted. They wanted as
a -- in 2020, they want to put Trump on the ballot. They want this to be a
referendum again on Donald Trump. You know, Donald Trump says we should
have another election. Well, if this was England, we had a snap election,
Trump would get killed. I mean, it wouldn`t even be close. So, it`s a
terrible position that Republicans are in withdrawal. They know it, they`re
trying to deal with it tactically here and there in states, but Trump isn`t
going to go away. He wants his campaign to be about him. And he wants it to
be a referendum on self. And that`s what he`s trying to make it and it`s
hurting all these candidates.
RUHLE: He`s not going away, but maybe some of these candidates will
remember, he didn`t have enough supporters to win an election. Both of you
gentlemen are going to stay with us. We`re going to take a quick break. But
when we come back, it`s another loss connected to Trump. This one Sarah
Palin, it means a major democratic win in a very, very red state. More on
that and the very bad week for the guy who endorsed her. When they 11th
Hour continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:48:38]
RUHLE: We are following some very big breaking political news out of
Alaska. Sarah Palin has lost a special election to the U.S. House. It is a
pickup for Democrats, the winner, Mary Peltola. She will be the first
Democrat in that seat in decades in the first Native American -- the first
Alaskan Native ever.
Jonathan Allen and Stuart Stevens is still with us. Jon, huge upset in the
very red state of Alaska. What`s your take here?
ALLEN: Well, number one, huge news for the Democrats. This is their second
straight, special election in a competitive environment, which they were
supposed to be feeling headwinds, where they`ve won. So, you had New York`s
19th District, just last week, and now you`ve got Alaska. Of course, you`ve
got a different voting system now, right choice. And I think another big
takeaway from this is that rank choice voting system really gives voters
the ability to reject the candidate that they liked the least. And in this
case, it was Sarah Palin.
And so, it`ll be interesting to see whether that system is adopted
elsewhere. And again, we`re going to see these candidates on the ballot in
November for a full term. So, we will get another look at the new Democrat
Peltola and Palin and Nick Begich again, but for the short term, big win
for the Democrats tonight.
RUHLE: Stuart, before the Dobbs ruling, man, we`re out registering women in
Alaska three to one after the ruling that flipped women were up seven and
we saw a surge in New Democrats registering to vote. What is this trend
tell you?
[23:50:12]
STEVENS: Yeah, you know, I don`t really think we`ve seen anything like this
that I can remember, in politics for a Supreme Court decision is having a
big impact politically across the board. There was a significant shift in
the generic vote Democrat versus Republican that occurred after the ruling.
I think it`s one of these cases where in previous elections, and this
makes, I think, since a lot of the energy in the abortion movement was
those who are against abortion. So now we have Roe v. Wade, has been
repealed. So, the energy has now shifted, you can`t just look at the
percentage and so more people are pro-choice than not. It`s is this
something that you are making your vote dependent upon? It`s the sort of
thing again, and regression analysis and polling. And when you`re beginning
to see I think that more and more voters are being driven by this issue.
And I think that`s overwhelmingly going to favor of Democrats in this
election.
RUHLE: Jon, earlier in the show, Jeremy Peters was talking about how
powerful Trump is, how the party has blinders on, and they are afraid of
them, and they continue to follow him. Do you think that is still the case?
Because look at this race, another Trump-endorsed candidate gone down, his
legal problems are only getting worse. And we`re watching Republican
candidates in a number of states start scrubbing these abortion policies
off of their platforms as though it never happened. What does that tell you
about where the party is?
ALLEN: There`s a real catch 22, Stephanie, for Republican candidates, if
they go against Trump, there`s a reasonable likelihood that they will be
defeated in primaries, and they can benefit from being with them. But then
they get to the general election as Trump candidates and they`re being
rejected by general electorate. So basically, what they can do is get
themselves into the general and then mess up -- mess it up in the general.
This is terrible news for Republicans in terms of how their party moves
forward with a leader that is toxic to majority of Americans.
RUHLE: Stuart as long as I have to here, I do want to go back to Trump for
a moment and the Mar-a-Lago search and really Merrick Garland. Given
everything that we`ve seen, and we don`t know all of it already, at this
point, if Merrick Garland doesn`t charge Trump, then what? How will we look
at the DOJ?
STEVENS: Oh, Lord, I have no idea. I think what`s happening here, though,
is a slow process of restoring confidence in these basic institutions of a
civil society. And that`s what Trump and the Republicans have attacked.
They`ve attacked the judiciary, they`ve attacked the FBI, they`ve attacked
law enforcement, they`ve attacked the election system, where the essence of
an election system is somebody has to be willing to lose and they`re not
willing to lose.
So, you know, ultimately something like the actions of the Justice
Department should be boring. It should be slow. It shouldn`t be big and
dramatic. And I think that Garland is restoring that faith slowly. I have
no idea. I think anybody would be kidding themselves. They have any idea
how this is going to end up. But I think that it is clear that this is a
thoughtful, careful process that the Justice Department is going through.
RUHLE: Dare to be boring, we shouldn`t be so lucky, boring would be good.
We could all use that right about now. Jon Allen, Stuart Stevens, thank you
both for joining, always good to see you.
STEVENS: Thank you.
RUHLE: When we come back, just when you start to think it is time for the
big finale, Serena update when the 11 Hour continues.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[23:58:25]
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Serena Williams just supreme in the final set when she
had to be.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: The last thing before we go tonight, the comeback Queen, the
everything queen. You know, we could not end this program this evening
without an update on Serena Williams and her historic US Open ran. The 40-
year-old tennis legend continued her winning streak and her career tonight,
beating the second ranked tennis player in the world in a hard fought three
set battle. Celebrities packed the stands yet again this evening for the
Serena show, including another queen in her own right, you just saw her on
the screen, the great Dionne Warwick and if she was saying a little prayer
for Serena, it definitely worked. Here`s what Serena had to say about her
career extended.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DIONNE WARWICK: You are taking your time evolving away from tennis. What do
you say about that?
SERENA WILLIAMS: You know, it`s no rush here. I`m just -- I`m loving this
crowd -- oh my goodness, it`s really fantastic. So, there`s still a little
left in me, we`ll see the neck. We`ll see.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
RUHLE: I don`t think I`ve ever seen Tiger Woods smile that big. And I would
say there`s more than a little left in Serena. And while we anxiously await
round three, we can all catch Serena playing doubles tomorrow night. with
her sister Venus and after that we will see you right here at 11.
[00:00:04]
And on that note, we wish you all a very good night. From all of our
colleagues across the networks and NBC News, thanks for staying up late
with us. I`ll see you at the end of tomorrow.
