Reps. Thomas Massie, R-Ky., and Ro Khanna, D-Calif., who are working together to push the Trump administration to release federal files related to Jeffrey Epstein, disagreed Sunday over whether President Donald Trump should pardon Epstein’s longtime associate Ghislaine Maxwell.
Massie told NBC News’ “Meet the Press” during a joint interview with Khanna that “whatever they need to do to compel [Maxwell’s] testimony, as long as it’s truthful, I would be in favor of.”
Khanna, on the other hand, said, “No, I don’t” believe that Maxwell should be pardoned or have her sentence commuted and that he is “concerned” that she met with Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche last week.
“Look, I agree with Congressman Massie that she should testify, but she’s been indicted twice on perjury. This is why we need the files,” Khanna added.
Maxwell, a longtime associate of Epstein’s, was convicted of federal sex trafficking charges in 2021. That same year, she was accused of making multiple false statements under oath. Blanche interviewed Maxwell over two days last week amid growing calls for the Trump administration to release any unclassified files related to Epstein.
On Friday, the president told reporters when asked about pardoning Maxwell: “I’m allowed to do it, but it’s something I have not thought about.”
In a separate interview Sunday, House Speaker Mike Johnson, R-La., said he would defer to the president on whether Maxwell should be pardoned, telling "Meet the Press" moderator Kristen Welker, "I won't get in front of him. That's not my lane."
Johnson later added, "If you’re asking my opinion, I think 20 years was a pittance. I think she should have a life sentence at least. I mean, think of all these unspeakable crimes, and as you noted earlier, probably 1,000 victims. I mean, you know, this, this is, it’s, it’s hard to put into words how evil this was."
Trump has also weighed in on the Epstein files in recent weeks, writing in a post on Truth Social that he was directing Attorney General Pam Bondi “to produce any and all pertinent Grand Jury testimony, subject to Court approval.”
Bondi and Blanche subsequently filed a motion asking for a judge to unseal records related to Epstein and Maxwell in a Manhattan federal court.
A federal judge in Florida last week also denied a separate Justice Department request to release federal grand jury transcripts in connection with an investigation into Epstein there.
Khanna and Massie — a bipartisan duo — have teamed up to co-sponsor a bill that would force the Trump administration to publish “all unclassified records” on Epstein.
“Politics is the art of the doable,” Massie said Sunday. “There’s enough public pressure right now that we can get 218 votes and force this to a vote on the floor.”
Nearly a dozen of his conservative House colleagues have signed on to back Massie’s joint measure with Khanna, with some Democrats, including Reps. Nancy Pelosi, D-Calif., and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, D-N.Y., signing on too.
Last week, Johnson, sent House lawmakers home from Washington one day early for their summer recess after Democrats on the powerful Rules Committee planned to force their Republican colleagues to take votes related to the Epstein files.
On Sunday, Massie accused Johnson of sending lawmakers home to avoid “political pain” for Republicans who could be forced to take a vote on whether to release the Epstein files.
“Why is it painful for Mike Johnson to call a vote on this?” the Kentucky congressman said. “The American people deserve this, regardless of what the political ramifications are for the speaker.”
In an exclusive "Meet the Press" interview later Sunday, Johnson denied sending lawmakers home early, accusing Democrats of “hijacking” the Rules Committee.
“What we did do this week is end the chaos in the Rules Committee, because the Democrats are trying to use this in a shameless manner for political purposes. Quite obviously, they hijacked the Rules Committee and they tried to turn it into an Epstein hearing,” Johnson said. “That’s not what the Rules Committee is about. So that’s why the floor votes ended on Wednesday instead of Thursday.”
Several officials in the Department of Justice have said that a release of the files Khanna and Massie are pushing for is not possible without harming Maxwell’s and Epstein’s alleged victims.
Johnson echoed that argument in his Sunday interview, saying, “House Republicans insist upon the release of all credible evidence and information related to Epstein in any way, but we are also insisting upon the protection of innocent victims. And our concern is that the Massie and Khanna discharge petition is reckless in the way that it is drafted and presented. It does not adequately include those protections.”
Earlier Sunday, Massie called that argument a “straw man.”
“Ro and I carefully crafted this legislation so that the victims’ names will be redacted and that no child pornography will be released,” Massie said, adding that Justice Department officials are “hiding behind that.”
“We’re trying to get justice for the victims and transparency for America,” Massie added. “And so, we’ve redacted things before. We don’t want to hurt the victims. We’re doing this for the victims.”
Massie recently drew the ire of President Donald Trump and his allies after he vocally opposed a massive GOP domestic policy package that House Republicans passed last month, raising concerns about how the measure would affect the national debt.
Earlier this year, two key advisers to the president even launched a super PAC that has already spent over $1 million on ads targeting Massie in his district, according to AdImpact, with the goal of preventing his re-election to Congress next year.
On Sunday, Khanna even defended Massie, praising the Kentucky Republican for standing up to Trump, despite the political headwinds it has created for him.
“The only person who suffered political pain in this whole thing is Congressman Thomas Massie for telling the truth,” Khanna told Welker. “He’s got the president’s entire team who got the president re-elected coming down on him in his district, and it’s just made him stronger.”
Khanna also addressed the political implications of this moment for his own party ahead of the 2026 midterm elections, where Democrats hope to flip the House and Senate to win control of Congress.
“Look, my core conviction is a new economic patriotism to reindustrialize America, a 21st-century Marshall Plan for America — Medicare for all, opposing the Medicaid cuts,” Khanna told Welker. “But you can’t do anything constructive with government if you don’t have trust in government. This is about trust in government.”
Khanna is widely seen as a potential 2028 presidential candidate and is already traveling around the country and speaking to voters outside of Washington and his home state of California.
Massie also framed any failure to release files related to Epstein as damaging to his own party heading into next year’s elections.
“This is going to hurt Republicans in the midterms. The voters will be apathetic if we don’t hold the rich and powerful accountable,” he said.
“I think when we get back, we can get the signatures required to force this to the floor,” Massie added, saying that Johnson will “have a choice” after that.
“Is he going to try and change the rules of the House of Representatives midstream or not? If he does, that becomes the vote for the American people,” he added.
