Justice Department releases Ghislaine Maxwell interview transcript and audio file
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Jeffrey Epstein's co-conspirator was asked about numerous celebrities and politicians, including President Donald Trump and former President Bill Clinton.
What we know
- The Justice Department this afternoon released the transcript and audio of its July interview with Ghislaine Maxwell, the imprisoned former associate of Jeffrey Epstein. Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche, President Donald Trump’s former criminal defense lawyer, interviewed Maxwell over the course of two days last month.
- Maxwell, who was convicted in 2021 of recruiting and grooming teenage girls to be sexually abused by the late financier, insisted in the interview that she never witnessed Trump do anything inappropriate. In a separate line of questioning, she said former President Bill Clinton never went to Epstein's island.
- Asked about a client list, Maxwell was adamant that no such document exists and that Epstein did not keep a “black book” with the names of famous people that he knew. She also said she does “not believe” Epstein died by suicide in a jail cell six years ago while awaiting trial on sex trafficking charges.
- The transcript release comes amid a political firestorm over the Trump administration’s refusal to release a trove of documents related to Epstein's case. The White House has faced criticism from Democrats and Republicans alike, including several major figures in the MAGA media ecosystem.
Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche asked Ghislaine Maxwell, the associate of Jeffrey Epstein, about the disgraced financier’s relationship with various prominent figures, including politicians, actors, and wealthy business executives, according to transcripts of her testimony the Justice Department released on Friday.
Maxwell said that she had never witnessed any inappropriate conduct from any man, including former President Donald Trump, whose name appeared in the unsealed records and who has not been accused by authorities of any wrongdoing.
“I never witnessed the president in any inappropriate setting in any way,” Maxwell said of Trump, whom she said “was never inappropriate with anybody.”
Maxwell also said she “never saw anything inappropriate” from Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr., toward young women, adding that Kennedy knew Epstein from a trip they went on together.
Logs released in Maxwell’s 2021 trial revealed that Kennedy was among those who traveled on Epstein’s plane, along with Trump and former President Bill Clinton.
Maxwell testified that Clinton had “never” gone to Epstein’s private island in the U.S. Virgin Islands and that she had no personal knowledge of a relationship between Tesla CEO Elon Musk and Epstein. However, Maxwell said she thought they did know each other and had communicated by email, “not from my memory” but based on recollections of findings that were made during discovery.
Maxwell also denied that Epstein had maintained any sort of client list and said she was not aware of “any blackmail.”
In a two-page memo last month, the Justice Department said that it had conducted a “systematic review” of the data tied to Epstein’s case and had turned up no evidence of an “incriminating ‘client list.’”
Maxwell is currently serving a 20-year prison sentence after she was found guilty of sex trafficking in 2021.
After sitting for the Justice Department’s interview, Maxwell was transferred to a minimum security federal prison camp about a week after she sat for her interview with Blanche.
David Markus, Maxwell’s lawyer, said his client is “innocent and never should have been tried, much less convicted, in this case.”
Brittany Henderson, an attorney for victims and survivors of Epstein’s sexual abuse, accused Maxwell of seeking clemency from Trump, saying in a statement that Maxwell was “presumably hoping that she will receive a pardon from President Trump.”
The transcripts follow ongoing criticism from some of Trump’s supporters who have demanded the release of records tied to Epstein’s case after Trump promoted conspiracy theories about Epstein’s death on the campaign trail last year and vowed to make the files public. In the months since taking office, Trump has attempted to distance himself from his earlier claims and has even disavowed those supporters who have called for more insight into the case.
Addressing the speculation about Epstein’s death while in jail, Maxwell said she did not believe authorities — who have repeatedly held that Epstein committed suicide when he died while awaiting trial in 2019, nor did she think he was murdered to protect the secrets of powerful friends.
The FBI recently reaffirmed earlier findings shortly after Epstein’s death from the New York City Office of the Chief Medical Examiner, the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York, and in 2023 from the DOJ’s Office of the Inspector General.
Read more of our live coverage of the transcript’s release below.
'Vast majority' of subpoenaed Epstein docs released by DOJ are already public, House Democrat says
Rep. Robert Garcia, D-Calif., a member of the House Oversight Committee, said none of the documents included in the Justice Department’s first turnover of subpoenaed Epstein records are "substantially new."
"It appears a vast majority of the documents today are already in the public record, and so these are court transcripts, reports, already things that we already knew," Garcia told MSNBC's Chris Hayes. "Nothing substantially new that we know of yet.”
The House Oversight Committee subpoenaed the Justice Department last month for all files related to the federal investigation into Epstein. Garcia said there are significantly "more documents that have yet to be released."
Garcia argued the Justice Department's release today of a transcript of Maxwell's testimony to federal prosecutors was meant to "distract" from its decision to only release a portion of the subpoenaed Epstein records, as opposed to the full, unredacted files requested by the committee.
"This release today, again, is to also distract from the broader question of why Pam Bondi and Donald Trump refused to release the full Epstein files," Garcia said.
Epstein likely didn't have relationship with the Cuomos, Maxwell says
Maxwell testified that she did not believe Epstein knew members of the Cuomo family, including television host Chris Cuomo, former New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo and his ex-wife, Kerry Kennedy.
Maxwell told Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche that she did not recall seeing members of the famous political family on Epstein's plane, his Palm Beach residence or his private island.
Maxwell however said she was friends with Kerry Kennedy and met Andrew Cuomo on occasion through that relationship.
Maxwell testified she has no knowledge of a relationship between Epstein and Musk
Maxwell testified that she has no personal knowledge of a relationship between Tesla CEO Elon Musk and Epstein, but said she thought they did know each other based on her memory of findings during discovery.
"I believe they did," Maxwell said. "And the only reason I say that is not from my memory, but because I saw -- I think I saw -- my memory is that in discovery, they were communicating on email."
Maxwell said that her memory is "not as good as I would like it to be."
Kevin Spacey, Chris Tucker did not visit Epstein properties, Maxwell says
Maxwell told Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche that, to her knowledge, actors Kevin Spacey and Chris Tucker did not visit any of Epstein's properties, transcripts indicate.
Maxwell couldn’t say the same for model Naomi Campbell, whose name has also appeared in unsealed records and was described by Maxwell as having a friendship with Epstein that was “independent” of her.
The actors and the supermodel were among the prominent figures whose names appeared in unsealed Epstein records, though none have been connected to any of Epstein's wrongdoing.
House Oversight Committee begins getting Epstein files
Around the same time the Justice Department released the Maxwell transcripts, the House Oversight Committee said it had received the first tranche of documents from the department related to the Jeffrey Epstein case.
“The House Oversight Committee has received the Department of Justice’s first production of Epstein records pursuant to Chairman James Comer’s subpoena. The production contains thousands of pages of documents," the committee said in a statement.
“The Committee intends to make these records public after thorough review to ensure any victims’ identification and child sexual abuse material are redacted. The Committee will also consult with the DOJ to ensure any documents released do not negatively impact ongoing criminal cases and investigations,” the statement said.
It's unclear when the material will be released, or how long it will take for DOJ to turn over the entire file.
Hillary Clinton did not 'associate' with Epstein, Maxwell said
Asked if Epstein "knew or had any sort of visit, dealings or associated with Hillary Clinton," Maxwell responded, "I would say no."
She also said she'd never seen the two of them together.
Asked if Epstein ever did any business with the Clintons, Maxwell said he may have given money to their foundation.
"I think he did do that. And that, I believe, the money that he may have given could have been independent of me," she said.
Maxwell: 'I do not believe' Epstein died by suicide - or a hit
Maxwell said she doesn't think Epstein killed himself, but doesn't believe he was killed to keep quiet about powerful friends either.
"I do not believe he died by suicide, no," Maxwell said.
Asked if she had any speculation about who killed him, she said, "I don't." Pressed on whether she believed he was murdered to "keep him quiet" because he had information about "rich and powerful people," she said, "I do not have any reason to believe that."
"And I also think it's ludicrous," she added, because if "that is what they wanted, they would've had plenty of opportunity when he wasn't in jail."
"If it is indeed murder, I believe it was an internal situation," Maxwell said.
Epstein's 2019 death in a federal jail cell while awaiting trial was ruled a suicide- a holding the FBI again affirmed in a controversial July memo.
"This conclusion is consistent with previous findings, including the August 19, 2019 autopsy findings of the New York City Office of the Chief Medical Examiner, the November 2019 position of the U.S. Attorney’s Office for the Southern District of New York in connection with the investigation of federal correctional officers responsible for guarding Epstein, and the June 2023 conclusions of DOJ’s Office of the Inspector General," the memo said.
The memo sparked a furious backlash from some of Trump's supporters, because he and top allies had previously stoked conspiracy theories about Epstein's death.
Maxwell said she 'never saw anything inappropriate' with Kennedy
Maxwell said that Health and Human Services Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr. knew Epstein because they went on a trip together, but said she “never saw anything inappropriate” with Kennedy and masseuses or young women.
Asked directly whether she knew if Kennedy had ever received a massage from one of the masseuses, Maxwell said, "I do not."
Pressed about Kennedy, Maxwell said, "I mean, absolutely not," before broadly stating that she had never witnessed inappropriate behavior from any man.
"I never, ever saw any man doing something inappropriate with a woman of any age. I never saw inappropriate habits," Maxwell said.
"Now, I’m not -- I’m not going to say hands or -- I mean, that to me is not inappropriate. Now, somebody’s inappropriate and mine may be different," she added.
Logs released in Maxwell’s 2021 trial revealed that Kennedy was among those who traveled on Epstein's plane, along with Trump and former President Bill Clinton. They have all denied any wrongdoing.
Attorney for Epstein victims says Maxwell is seeking pardon from Trump
Brittany Henderson, an attorney for numerous Epstein victims and survivors, accused Maxwell of seeking clemency from President Donald Trump following the Justice Department's release of her testimony transcripts.
“Ghislaine Maxwell was federally indicted on two perjury counts as a result of her testimony during her civil deposition. Having been convicted of sex trafficking, she is now in jail presumably hoping that she will receive a pardon from President Trump," Henderson said in a statement.
"I can’t imagine that her testimony will be given much weight by anyone with any knowledge whatsoever of her involvement with Jeffrey Epstein," she added.
Maxwell says there is 'absolutely no' client list
Blanche asked Maxwell if she knew whether Epstein maintained a "black book" or client list containing names of famous people that he knew.
"Yeah, there is no list. We'll start with that," Maxwell said.
Prodded further about a client list, Maxwell said: "Absolutely no. There is no list. There is no, I’m not aware of any blackmail. I never heard that. I never saw it, and I never imagined it," Maxwell said.
The Justice Department said in a two-page memo last month that a "systematic review" of the data tied to Epstein's case had turned up no evidence of an “incriminating ‘client list.’”
Clinton 'absolutely never' went to Epstein's island, Maxwell says
Blanche asked Maxwell if Bill Clinton had ever gone to Epstein's private island in the U.S. Virgin Islands.
"He never, absolutely never went," Maxwell responded. "And I can be sure of that because there’s no way he would’ve gone. I don’t believe there’s any way that he would’ve gone to the island, had I not been there. Because I don’t believe he had an independent friendship, if you will, with Epstein."
Trump has said repeatedly — including earlier today — that Clinton had visited the island "28 times." Clinton has previously denied ever going there.
Maxwell said she didn't believe Epstein communicated with intelligence agenices as a source
Maxwell responded "no" when Blanche asked whether she knew Epstein to communicate with FBI agents as a source or otherwise.
Asked whether he would have been likely to tell her if he was an FBI source, Maxwell said that he would have bragged about it.
"I think if he was for real, I think he would’ve bragged about it to me as a show off, because he could be a showoff. And if he wasn’t, he might have dropped it like he was cool. And I don’t think -- I don’t remember him doing either," Maxwell said.
"Now, with, again, the caveat that in his — before I met him, finding money, I think he may have suggested that there was some people who helped him, but that’s the only context that I recall that in," Maxwell added.
Asked what she meant by "finding money," Maxwell recalled that Epstein had shown her "a photograph that he had with some African warlords or something," and that was her sole memory "of something nefarious — not nefarious. I don’t even know if it was nefarious, but covert, I suppose, would be the word."
Asked about other intelligence agencies, like the CIA or Defense Intelligence or any other law enforcement agency, Maxwell said, "Okay. I don’t think so. I think that -- I don’t remember anything like that. I just don’t think he had the wherewithal," and that it was "bull----."
Prosecutors, judge have questioned Maxwell's honesty
The prosecutors and judge involved in Maxwell's 2021 criminal trial blasted her for being dishonest and failing to accept responsibility for her actions.
“The defendant’s willingness to brazenly lie under oath about her conduct, including some of the conduct charged in the Indictment, strongly suggests her true motive has been and remains to avoid being held accountable for her crimes,” prosecutors wrote in one pretrial motion.
The judge who sentenced Maxwell to 20 years behind bars after she was found guilty of recruiting, grooming and trafficking multiple teenage girls for Epstein noted she refused take responsibility for her actions.
“Ms. Maxwell today acknowledged the courage of the victims, talked about the pain and anguish they expressed, to some extent acknowledged the pain and suffering,” Judge Alison Nathan said at her sentencing, but “what wasn’t expressed was acceptance of responsibility.”
Maxwell had at one point in the case been charged with perjury, alleging she made false statements in a deposition under oath in the 2016 civil case. The government declined to move forward with those charges after her sex trafficking conviction. Maxwell is appealing the conviction.
Maxwell says she doesn't remember whether Trump submitted a message for Epstein's 50th birthday book
According to newly released transcripts of his interview with Maxwell, Blanche asked whether she remembered the names of people who had sent letters to contribute to a 50th birthday album for Epstein in 2003.
"It’s been so long. I want to tell you, but I don’t remember," Maxwell said.
Blanche was referring to a Wall Street Journal article that reported Trump was among those who submitted a letter to the book more than two decades ago. NBC News has not independently verified the documents, and the president has denied submitting a letter.
Asked if she remembered Trump submitting a letter, card or note, Maxwell responded: "I don't."
Maxwell was also asked whether she remembered seeing the book or any portion of the letters, and she said she did, but that "there was nothing from President Trump."
Pressed again on whether President Trump had submitted a letter for Epstein's 50th birthday, Maxwell said, "I do not remember."
Maxwell also said she did not have a recollection of a letter containing a drawing of a naked woman.
Trump sued the Journal last month for $10 billion in damages and a jury trial over the report.
Maxwell was transferred to federal prison camp after interview
Maxwell, who's serving a 20-year prison sentence on sex trafficking charges, was transferred to a minimum security federal prison camp about a week after she sat for her interview with Blanche.
Maxwell, 63, had been held at a low-security facility in Tallahassee, Florida, that housed men and women, but was transferred to a camp in Bryan, Texas, which houses only women. A majority of its inmates are serving time for nonviolent offenses and white-collar crimes.
The move outraged some former Bureau of Prisons officials who said she appeared to be getting special treatment. Bureau of Prisons rules require sex offenders to be held in at least a low-level security prison like FCI Tallahassee, unless they receive a waiver.
Maxwell said she knew Trump before she knew Epstein
Maxwell said she believes she first met Trump in 1990 — before she met Epstein.
"I may have met Donald Trump at that time, because my father was friendly with him and liked him very much," she said, referring to Robert Maxwell, who owned the New York Daily News at the time.
"President Trump was always very cordial and very kind to me. And I just want to say that I find — I — I admire his extraordinary achievement in becoming the president now. And I like him, and I’ve always liked him. So that is the sum and substance of my entire relationship with him," she said.
Maxwell said Epstein and Trump were "friendly" but "I don't think they were close friends."
Maxwell says she didn't see Epstein taking photos or videos of others for blackmail
In the interview with Blanche, Maxwell claimed she never saw Epstein taking photos or videos of other people to later blackmail them.
"Did you ever hear, when you were present for conversations that Mr. Epstein was having, or others were having, anybody accuse him of blackmailing them or of trying to extort them, because of something Mr. Epstein knew?" Blanche asked.
"No," Maxwell replied.
Maxwell's attorney insists she is 'innocent' and praises DOJ for releasing transcript
David Markus, Maxwell's lawyer, said his client is "innocent and never should have been tried, much less convicted, in this case."
"She never committed or participated in sexual abuse against minors, or anyone else for that matter. In fact, the government has admitted that it did not even consider her a conspirator during the extensive investigation into Epstein in the Southern District of Florida. The only reason she was ever charged is that she served as a scapegoat after Jeffrey Epstein died in prison," Markus said in a lengthy statement.
Markus went on to express gratitude to the Trump administration for publicizing the recordings of Maxwell's interview with Blanche.
"We are thankful to the Department of Justice and to Todd Blanche for making these tapes and transcripts public so that people can judge for themselves. We are also grateful to the President for his continued commitment to the truth in this matter and for refusing to cave to the mob," Markus said.
Blanche says transcript released 'in the interest of transparency'
Maxwell said she does 'not believe' Epstein died by suicide
In the interview with Blanche, Maxwell expressed skepticism about the medical examiner's ruling that Epstein killed himself in August 2019.
"I do not believe he died by suicide," Maxwell said, according to the transcript.
Maxwell asserts she never saw Trump do anything inappropriate
Maxwell told Blanche she never witnessed President Donald Trump doing anything inappropriate, according to the transcript released by the DOJ.
"I never witnessed the president in any inappropriate setting in any way," Maxwell said, referring to Trump. "The president was never inappropriate with anybody."
