WASHINGTON — A rare display of bipartisan consensus was seen Thursday at a remarkably contentious Senate hearing with Health Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
Kennedy appeared before the Senate Finance Committee after an extraordinarily tumultuous week and a half in which he announced limited access to Covid vaccines and fired the newly confirmed director of Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, Susan Monarez, leading to an exodus of senior officials at the agency.
Over roughly three hours of questioning, Kennedy was more vocal in his anti-vaccine views than at previous Senate hearings and seemed to return to embracing fringe positions that experts have warned could seriously damage public health.
He told Sen. Michael Bennet, D-Colo., that he believes vaccines developed with mRNA — the technology used for Pfizer’s and Moderna’s Covid shots — cause serious harm, including death. He later doubled down on the remark during an exchange with Sen. Thom Tillis, R-N.C.
It was Kennedy’s criticism of vaccines that drew bipartisan condemnation.
Several Republicans sought to highlight a divide between Kennedy and what they said was one of President Donald Trump’s biggest accomplishments of his first term: Operation Warp Speed, the public-private program to quickly develop and distribute the first Covid shots.
Sen. Bill Cassidy, R-La., asked whether Trump deserved a Nobel Prize for the initiative, to which Kennedy said: “Absolutely, senator.”
“As lead attorney for the Children’s Health Defense, you engaged in multiple lawsuits attempting to restrict access to the Covid vaccine,” Cassidy responded. “Again, it surprises me that you think so highly of Operation Warp Speed, when, as an attorney, you attempted to restrict access.”
Cassidy’s line of questioning was eagerly anticipated. The senator was a key vote in Kennedy’s confirmation but has since been critical of some of his decisions. Earlier this week, Cassidy would not say whether he regretted his vote to confirm the secretary.
He also read aloud a post on X from conservative talk show host Erick Erickson, whose wife has Stage 4 lung cancer and — according to Erickson — was unable to get a Covid vaccine “thanks to the current mess at HHS.”
“I would say, effectively, we’re denying people vaccine,” Cassidy said.
Sen. John Barrasso, R-Wyo., highlighted the turmoil at the CDC and questioned Kennedy’s response to the measles outbreak in western Texas. During the outbreak, Kennedy downplayed the benefits of vaccination and pushed unproven treatments.
“Secretary Kennedy, in your confirmation hearings, you promised to uphold the highest standards for vaccines,” Barrasso said. “Since then, I’ve grown deeply concerned.”
Barrasso’s ardent defense of vaccines (he is also a medical doctor) and line of questioning was notable given his leadership position in the Senate, where he serves as majority whip.
Tillis pointed to several examples of what he said were contradictions between Kennedy’s words and actions, including Kennedy promising not to impose his beliefs on others, then firing the CDC director, canceling $500 million in mRNA research contracts and ousting longtime members of the CDC’s vaccine advisory board.
“You said you’re going to empower the scientists at HHS to do their job. I’d just like to see evidence where you’ve done that,” Tillis said.
Chaos at the CDC
The chaos at the CDC, including the firing of Monarez, was a flashpoint for both Democrats and Republicans. In a Wall Street Journal op-ed published shortly before the hearing, Monarez said she was fired after being told to preapprove recommendations made by a vaccine advisory panel whose members have expressed skepticism about vaccines.
“Mr. Secretary, did you in fact do what Director Monarez said you did, which is tell her to just go along with vaccine recommendations, even if she didn’t think such recommendations aligned with scientific evidence?” asked Sen. Ron Wyden, D-Ore., the ranking member of the Finance Committee. (Earlier Thursday, Wyden, along with other Democratic senators, called on Kennedy to resign.)
“No, I did not,” Kennedy said.
“So she’s lying today to the American people in The Wall Street Journal?” Wyden said.
Kennedy responded: “Yes, sir.”
In a fiery exchange, Sen. Elizabeth Warren, D-Mass., also pressed Kennedy on why he dismissed Monarez. Kennedy said he told Monarez to resign because he asked her whether she was a “trustworthy person” and, he claims, she said no. “If you had an employee who told you they weren’t trustworthy, would you ask them to resign, senator?” Kennedy asked.
Sen. Bernie Sanders, I-Vt, pushed to clarify his remark.
“Are you telling us that the former head of CDC went to you, you asked her, ‘Are you a trustworthy person?’ And she said, ‘No, I am not a trustworthy person’?” Sanders asked.
“She didn’t say, ‘No, I’m not a trustworthy person.’ She said, ‘No,’” Kennedy said.
The dispute over the vaccine recommendations, which Monarez said in her op-ed she had been asked to preapprove, stems from Kennedy’s decision earlier this summer to fire every member of the CDC’s vaccine advisory committee and replace them with vaccine skeptics. Kennedy has said he did this to eliminate conflicts of interest.
According to Cassidy, Kennedy had promised that he wouldn’t make changes to the influential panel.
During the hearing, Cassidy pointed out that conflicts of interest on the previous panel were low — under 7% — and that Kennedy had appointed new members who served as expert witnesses for plaintiffs suing vaccine makers.
“If we put people who are paid witnesses for people suing vaccines, that actually seems like a conflict of interest. Real quickly: Do you agree with that?” Cassidy said.
“No, I don’t,” Kennedy responded. “It may be a bias, and that bias, if disclosed, is OK.”
At multiple points, Kennedy accused senators of lying when confronted with difficult questions about actions he’s taken at the agency and his views on vaccines.
“You’re making things up to scare people, and it’s a lie,” he told Sen. Maggie Hassan, D-N.H., in response to her claim that Kennedy did not offer a transparent explanation for the Food and Drug Administration’s limited approval of Covid vaccines.
The FDA last week narrowed its Covid vaccine approval to a smaller, high-risk group: people 65 and up and those with at least one medical condition that puts them at risk of severe illness. The CDC in May also stopped recommending the vaccine for pregnant people and healthy children.
Dr. Demetre Daskalakis, the former director of the CDC’s National Center for Immunization and Respiratory Diseases who resigned last week, told NBC News on Aug. 28 that he learned about the changes to Covid vaccine recommendations on social media. Daskalakis said he asked to see the data that supported the decision and “was told no.”
