KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: Campaign countdown. With just two months until the midterm elections, pressure builds as gas prices rise and the Iran war heats up again.
[BEGIN TAPE]
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
I wouldn’t call it a war. Right now, there is no active shooting.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Can Republicans keep control of Congress?
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
I’m not affected by the election. Number one, I’m not running, but my party’s running, and I’m going to help my party.
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Republicans are going to defy history
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
Life hasn’t gotten better under the Republican-controlled Congress. Life has gotten worse
REP. TED LIEU:
Just go f—king vote
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
I’ll talk to Republican Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana and Democratic Congressman Jamie Raskin of Maryland. Plus: Byte back. The one issue uniting both parties — pushing back on data centers. Steve Kornacki reveals the results of a new poll. And: Mail order? The battle over mail-in voting is heading to court. Will President Trump win his fight to restrict mail-in voting? Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Capitol Hill Correspondent Julie Tsirkin, Amy Walter, Editor-in-Chief of The Cook Political Report, Republican Strategist Matt Gorman, and former Biden White House Senior Adviser Steve Ricchetti. Welcome to Sunday: It’s Meet the Press
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press, with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. Just 58 days until the midterms and the pressure is building on Republicans. Fuel prices are rising. The Iran war is dragging into its seventh month with U.S. forces striking three Iranian oil tankers on Saturday and no clear end in sight before November. President Trump is looking to rally his party — hosting the first-ever GOP midterm convention in Dallas this week. And now, a new flashpoint: artificial intelligence. The AI boom is driving a massive buildout of data centers — and a bipartisan backlash. Democrats and Republicans may not agree on much, but they’re increasingly agreeing on this. Joining me for a look at all of it is NBC News chief data analyst Steve Kornacki. Steve, good morning.
STEVE KORNACKI:
Good morning, Kristen. Well, let’s dive in. Keep in mind, by the way, this decision desk poll, this is of all adults, not just registered voters, so a bit of a wider net that we’re casting here, but still, some very clear answers here, especially when it comes to this: President Trump’s job performance and approval rating now in this decision desk poll of just 36%. This has been a slow, steady decline throughout Trump’s second term. He was at 45% in the spring of 2025 in our decision desk poll, now down to 36% approval. One thing that’s really dragging that number down for him clearly it’s this: it’s the war with Iran. Only 31% approval on this, and even seeing some indications of cracks in Trump’s base on this question in particular. So heading into the midterms, obviously key numbers with the president here. Also the backdrop, this issue of AI picking up on some shifts here and some broad apprehension when it comes to this. So asking people a bottom line: are you more excited or more worried about the advent of AI, about the advances? Overwhelmingly, more worried, more than a two-to-one margin here. Now there is a bit of a partisan dimension to this. You see, it’s more than three quarters of Democrats who say they’re more worried. Among Republicans it’s more than a third who do say they’re more excited. But still you could see it, it’s broad, the apprehension there, the concern is broad across party lines when it comes to AI. There’s also the sort of risk-reward calculation here, the benefits, the potential benefits of AI. What do folks think here? There’s a fair number who do say there are very high or high potential benefits. There’s a lot who say there’s very low or potential low. A lot who are in the middle. But how about the risk side of it? Here, it’s very very clear: again, two thirds say the risks of AI are very high or high. How about that question here that’s getting a lot of attention now in politics: data centers. Would you support or oppose the construction of a data center in your area? Only 31% support, 69% oppose. Again, it’s progressive Democrats who are most likely to be on the hardest opposition of this. But even among MAGA Republicans, it’s about a 50-50 split on whether they would support it in their backyard, here. Then there’s this question here too, where we see a shift: AI and schools. Would you rather see AI integrated into schools or prohibited? Now a majority say prohibit AI in schools. We tested this about a year ago, it was different. Back then it was a slight majority who said to integrate it, so picking up on a shift there. And again, a long-term question here, sort of about all the areas of American life that could be affected by AI, asking if these areas will be affected in a way that’s more good or more harmful. And again, look at this — overwhelmingly, folks saying more harmful in all of these areas: elections, in news, in higher education, jobs, national security. Two areas, though, where folks do show some optimism when it comes to AI, the only two areas, we’ll show you them right here: it is healthcare and scientific research — a little bit different there. So, Kristen, again, deep apprehension here with some hints of optimism, but it’s an issue obviously that seems to be getting more and more attention in our politics.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, a major flashpoint in these midterms. Steve Kornacki, thank you so very much. And joining me now is Republican Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana. Senator Kennedy, welcome back to Meet The Press.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Thank you, Kristen. Thanks for having me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, thank you for being here. Let’s dive right in. Here we are, the Labor Day holiday weekend, the unofficial start of the midterm election season. President Trump set to headline the GOP convention in Dallas a little bit later on this week. He’s urging voters to pretend he is on the ballot. Should these midterms be a referendum on President Trump, Senator?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
They always are, on whoever the majority party is and the president is. It’s eight weeks. They’ll be close. Here’s my prediction about the elections, Kristen. The experts will be wrong. They always are. I will, I will buy you a steak the size of a Ford Explorer if all the experts get it right. All I know — I’ve been out there in the battleground states helping my, helping my buds. And these elections are going to be close. People are angry on both sides. But I couldn’t tell you how it’s going to turn out in either the House or the Senate.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, let’s talk about one of the closest and biggest races, quite frankly, in Texas. As you know, senator, it has been 38 years since a Democrat won a Senate seat in Texas. President Trump just announcing he’s committing $10 million from his super PAC to the race. Of course, Ken Paxton there facing off against James Talarico. How confident are you that Republicans can hold onto the Texas Senate seat?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
I’m confident. Look, those experts, Kristen, that I talked about, you know, if you listen to them, they all say Texas should be a fat guy lay-up for the Republicans. And I guess if you go back 25, 50 years, that may be true. But every election is different. And boy, this election certainly is going to be different. And there’s no sense bubble wrapping. The election is close. We were being outspent. The attorney general was being outspent. A couple of weeks ago, I asked President Trump to ride in and help us with his $800 million. And he did. He put down 10 million yesterday. And I believe more is coming. But it will be a close race. We have a race on our hands. I’ll be glad to talk about it. But the economy is solid. But inflation sucks. And people are, are when they lie down to sleep at night, moms and dads and kin, they’re worried about the cost of living. They’re also not especially happy about the war in Iran. And that’s on their mind. But mostly, they’re just, they’re just angry. I think that’s part of the problem with data centers. They’re just, they’re just pissed off.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, let’s talk about all of that. Let’s start with the economy which is the top issue for voters as you say, senator. Here’s what administration officials have been promising voters. Take a look.
[BEGIN TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Are you confident that gas will be back under $3 a gallon by the busy summer travel season, Mr. Secretary?
SECRETARY CHRIS WRIGHT:
There’s a very good chance that’ll be true.
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT
I think we can get back to $3 hopefully.
REPORTER:
When?
SECRETARY SCOTT BESSENT:
Maybe by Labor Day.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, so diesel prices at their highest ever. It is now Labor Day, of course. The regular, for a regular gallon of gas costs an averaging of $4.15. Do you believe Republicans will be punished at the polls for the price of gas?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Well, here’s what I think about the economy for what it’s worth. Except for inflation, which as I said, sucks, the economy’s solid. Growth is okay, unemployment’s low. Wages, they’re going up, not as high as we’d like. Average income tax refund increased about 12%. Business profits are solid. We — we may — we created 136,000 jobs last year or last month. But look, that inflation is a big if. And it’s gutting people like a fish. Inflation is pernicious. And we’ve had it for a few years now. It’s been up and down since President Biden’s administration. What we ought to do is something about it. I’m not blaming it on the president or the House. The Senate Republicans, about five months ago, through a reconciliation bill, we should have addressed it. We didn’t for a couple reasons. Number one, I couldn’t convince the majority leader to put a bill like that on the floor. And number two, we’re probably three or four votes short. We’ve got a few Republicans that, on the Senate side, that are kind of like the feral kid in Mad Max 2. You’ve got to spend a little time with them. But we still have time. And I’ll be glad to talk about what we can do. But this inflation did not originate in a bat. I’ll be glad to talk about where it came from. And it’s not going to go away once the bat is dead. We’ve got to kill it ourselves.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you think there’s enough time to address inflation before November, Senator?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Sure, sure, if we wanted to. I we wanted to. We can do anything we want to in, in reconciliation and ask the House to come back and do it. I’m not saying we will do — will do that. Certainly based on our record the last five or six months, it’s not likely. But but look, you don’t have to be John Maynard Friedman to see what everybody else in America is seeing. These prices are gutting the middle class like a fish. And they expect Congress to address them. And we should have started five months ago. We didn’t. But we need to start talking about it now. That’s my opinion. I’m not putting anybody down. I’m labor. I’m not management. I don’t run the show. But if I did, if I did, we we would be on this issue, we’d be on this issue like a hobo on a ham sandwich. We would be all over inflation passing bills.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Let’s move to another issue that you raised, that Steve Kornacki was talking about at the top, of course, those data centers. You saw the Decision Desk poll numbers. Just to remind folks, 69% oppose building data centers in their community. President Trump said something interesting. He said communities that oppose data centers, quote, “want to end up being backwards and poor.” “Backwards and poor,” he said, Senator. Do you agree with President Trump?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
No. I mean, look, the president can say what he wants. You know, he’s, he’s aggressively unpredictable. Here’s what I see. The people who have developed AI are very, very smart. But they’re high IQ stupid people. You might let them tutor you. But you wouldn’t want them to date your sister. They’re terrible marketers. Either that or they hired, I don’t know, the marketing director for Cracker Barrel. They started got — they started out by saying, “We have this wonderful technology. And it’s going to cost everybody their job. And it costs a lot of money for electricity. And your bills might go up. And it uses a lot of water. But trust us, you’ll love it.” Now, here’s what: AI and the data centers can get their momentum back. But they’re going to have to do a few things. First, they’re going to have to stop using so much water. Go to a closed-loop system. Number two, they’re going to have to provide their own energy. Number three, they’re going to have to devise buildings that are slightly aesthetic. I mean, the buildings they build now look like a, they look like a broken arm with the bone sticking out. Number four, they’re going to have to stop going into these states and demanding all these tax subsidies and, and, and demanding all the tax breaks. They’re all rich. Number five, they’re going to have to straight up — talk straight up to the American people about what AI means. The American people look at it. They’re not stupid. They get it. They think, “Well, AI could make our lives better if it doesn’t take our jobs and kill us all first.”
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
And these high IQ stupid people have done a lousy job of explaining all that. They can get it back, but they got work to do.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. We have a number of more topics to get through. We’re running out of time a little bit. Let me go to Ukraine now. President Trump’s envoy Steve Witkoff, Jared Kushner meeting with Vladimir Putin in Moscow, and then this morning arriving in Ukraine, set to meet with President Zelenskyy. What do you think Russia should give up as a part of a peace deal, Senator? And do you think one is possible?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Well, of course I — well I’d like Russia to just say no mas and quit. I don’t know what they’re willing to give up. I know we missed a big chance this past week when the House didn’t pass the Russian, Russian sanctions bill. Vladimir Putin, this guy’s a pirate. He’s got blood under his fingernails. He doesn’t care about a bunch of pretty talk. You don’t get any credit for kissing his ass. You, you’ve got to show him you mean business. We should have passed that Russian sanctions bill. And we’ve got another chance to do it. Then we ought to, we ought to help Ukraine and help Europe. They’re doing okay on their own. But we can provide them intelligence. We’ve got Putin down. We’re choking him to death. We’re choking him. We’ve got to choke him to death. That’s what he understands. I’m not putting down any of the talk. And I think talk is good and it can be helpful. But, but I will — I won’t faint with surprise if our guys don’t come out of there without a deal.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, to Iran now –
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
– But Putin’s hurting. And we’ve got to help Ukraine.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, let me move to Iran now where there were new attacks as you know this weekend. The U.S. military saying it struck Iranian oil tankers after Iran launched missiles toward two U.S. Navy ships. Do you believe the war with Iran will be over by the November midterms, Senator?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Probably not. But here’s what I think about Iran. I think no fair-minded person who believes in life, death, and the resurrection, if that’s what you believe in, can look around and think that the world is not safer because of a degraded Iran, debated, er, degraded Hamas, degraded Hezbollah and Assad is gone. The world is safer. We have accomplished all of our objectives in Iran. I will be glad to talk about what they are if you want to. There’s just one problem. The strait is semi-closed. It’s not completely closed. Anywhere from a third to 70% if you believe Goldman Sachs that the oil is getting through. The blockade was a smart play. It’s hurting the Iranians badly. It’s hurting the government. Nothing’s coming in. Nothing’s coming out. They’re going to have to eat and drink their oil. And I think we ought to leave it on for a few morning months if we can stand the pain at the pump.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Sen --
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Oil’s not over $100 a barrel. And I wish it weren’t so high. It’s too expensive. But if some — some oil’s getting through otherwise oil would be 150 bucks.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, very quickly before I let go --
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
That’s what I think.
KRISTEN WELKER:
As you know your Republican colleague Senator Thom Tillis is calling for Pete Hegseth to be replaced. Do you still have confidence in Secretary Hegseth?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Well, it’s not my place to have confidence in him. Here’s what I see —
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, you’re a senator.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
— Mr. Hegseth doing. And clearly he’s consolid– he’s, he’s, he’s — let me say just finish Kristen. He’s, he’s, he’s consolidating power. That’s clear. He seems to be firing some pretty good people. Whether they deserve it or not, I don’t know. The president — I voted for him. I’d probably vote for him again until evidence is shown to me that he shouldn’t have fired these guys. But I’m not worried about the personalities. I’m worried about two things. We need more bullets, not just for Iran but for the world. And number two, we need to be partnering up — partnering up with Ukraine to develop a new way to fight wars. And that begins with drones. And number three, we need to give the military some more money. We’re going to have to probably do it through reconciliation. Because the Democrats hate Trump so much that they would — that that they don’t want to — they don’t want to spend money on the military. And that’s the way I see it. You may disagree. But that’s what makes life, the world go around.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Senator Kennedy, thank you so very much for being here. We really appreciate it.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
I like you better than Chuck Todd, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, we appreciate your being here very much, Senator. Thank you so much. We love Chuck too --
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
You’ve got better hair for one thing.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, we love Chuck too. Thank you, Senator. When we come back, Democratic Congressman Jamie Raskin joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. And joining me now is Democratic Congressman Jamie Raskin of Maryland. Congressman Raskin, welcome back to Meet the Press.
REP. JAMIE RASKIN:
I’m delighted to be with you, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We are delighted to have you. Thank you for being here, in person. We, of course, have to start with the midterms. I know you’ve been traveling all around the country, including in Michigan, where you’ve campaigned with Dr. Abdul El-Sayed. You’ve campaigned alongside, of course, Congresswoman Hillary Scholten. She has declined to endorse El-Sayed in this race. Do you believe the Democratic Party is too divided right now, Congressman, to win back control of Congress?
REP. JAMIE RASKIN:
No, I think we’re too big for the Republicans to defeat, which is why they’re trying to divide us with that kind of rhetoric. I was also with Callie Barr in Michigan, which is the upper peninsula and a very rural area. And what people are talking about there is the fact that Trump’s billion-dollar cut to Medicaid is forcing rural hospitals to cut back on services. Callie Barr talks about how there are three different OBGYN birth delivery clinics that have had to close there. I was also with the fourth district. We have a great candidate there, too, called Sean McCann. And again, people are concerned about corruption. They’re concerned about the Iran war, and the fact that gasoline prices and diesel prices are through the roof, inflation is killing people there. There’s a Canadian boycott of America because of all of Donald Trump’s high-handed, contemptuous, snotty treatment of the Canadians. I think, you know, a big plurality of Canadians now say that America is their enemy. I mean, this is the stuff people are talking about in the rural areas of Michigan. And in Upstate New York, I was with Blake Gendebien, who’s running a fantastic campaign, 21st district. And the people there want to see change. And the Republicans are going to be blindsided because there’s this huge political reaction in the rural areas against what Donald Trump’s been doing.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, I do want to ask you, because Congresswoman Scholten has said she will not endorse Dr. El-Sayed because she still has questions about his association, excuse me, with streamer Hasan Piker. He’s notably faced questions about his past statements. He’s compared Hamas to Israel. I want to play a little bit of something that he said and get your reaction on the other side.
REP. JAMIE RASKIN:
Ok.
[BEGIN TAPE]
HASAN PIKER:
I do mean it. I think it’s a rhetorical move because it frustrates a lot of people. I’ve also said I’m a harm-reduction voter. I’m a lesser-evil voter. And therefore, I would vote for Hamas over Israel, every single time.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
“I would vote for Hamas over Israel, every single time.” Is the Democratic Party tent big enough to include Hasan Piker?
REP. JAMIE RASKIN:
Well, I don’t even know if Hasan Piker considers himself a Democrat. I know he attacked me for campaigning with Callie Barr, and Sean McCann, and other Democrats in Michigan. I think all of that is an irrelevant distraction. Obviously, nobody supports Hamas, a terrorist organization which brutally attacked Israel on October 7th. But people here also don’t support the policies of Bibi Netanyahu. But we’re not going to be able to work that out in the next 60 days. We’re going to stand strong for democracy, national security, human rights, all over the world, but beginning right here in America, where our national security, our democracy, and our human rights have been undermined by Donald Trump and his MAGA followers.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, let me ask you about one of the big flashpoints that has emerged, Democrats preparing for potential disruptions to the midterms. NBC News is out with a report that former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton joined former Attorney General Eric Holder in what was described as a war game to protect election integrity. What exactly are you preparing for?
REP. JAMIE RASKIN:
Well look, people ask me, all the time, “Is Donald Trump going to try to steal the election?” And I say, “No. He’s trying to steal the election. He’s trying to steal the election, when they’re closing polling places in Texas, when they’re throwing voters off the rolls in Georgia or other states for having missed an election.” Every day — they don’t have any plans to get healthcare to American people or to combat climate change. They’ve got plans to try to steal the election. It’s just a bag of dirty tricks. So we’re preparing for everything. We made a list of more than a hundred different ways that they’re going to try to undermine the right to vote and try to steal the election, as Donald Trump did very clearly in, you know, 2020, when he called up Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger in Georgia and said, “Just find me 11,780 votes.” That wasn’t Donald Trump trying to stop electoral fraud; that was Donald Trump trying to commit electoral fraud. And so people know that that’s their plan. What we need to do is to build a political landslide so vast and so strong across America that it’s too big to rig. They’re not going to be able to steal it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It’s interesting. You used the term, “Too big to rig.” We’ve heard former Vice President Kamala Harris use that language. I want to play a little bit of what we’re hearing and get your reaction on the other side.
[BEGIN TAPE]
KAMALA HARRIS:
They are cheating. They are trying to cheat. And we have got to turn out in big numbers and be too big to rig.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
We want a landslide that is too big to rig, too big to rig.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Is, “Too big to rig,” the right message for Democrats? And you hear Donald Trump there, using that term.
REP. JAMIE RASKIN:
Well, we’ve got different messages, you know, for different moments, I mean, my message to everyone and to, especially, the young people, because we just completed our democracy summer project with 2,000 young people across America embedded in Democratic campaigns, with seminars on the air, every day, with people like Marc Elias, people like Tim Snyder, and Nancy Pelosi. But our message is, everything that you need to know about voting is everything you need to know about driving. If you want to go forward, you put it in D, and if you want to go backwards, you put it in R. That’s all, funnily, people need to understand. Donald Trump and his party are driving us backwards on everything, from Civil Rights, to civil liberties, foreign policy, you name it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, you take me to my next question because if Democrats retake the House, you would be in line to chair the judiciary committee. This week, House Democrats rejected a proposed constitutional amendment that would have codified the court’s nine seat bench. Congressman Jim Clyburn told me on this program, last week, that he does support expanding the court to 13 justices. The next time Democrats control Washington, do you believe they should add four justices to the court, Congressman?
REP. JAMIE RASKIN:
Okay. To be clear, they didn’t just want to codify nine justices; they wanted to constitutionalize nine justices. In other words, they wanted to revoke a power that Congress has had since the beginning of the republic, to set the size of the Supreme Court. It started at six. It went to five, back to six, then seven. It’s been up to ten. Back to nine — it’s always been within the legislative province to do it, just like they gave away our war powers by letting Donald Trump go to war against Iran, without a vote to declare war, just like they’ve given away our tariff powers, our spending powers, our taxing powers, even our power over federal buildings, like the Kennedy Center and the White House. Now, they want to give away Congress’s power to set the number of people on the Supreme Court. So they need two-thirds in the House, two-thirds in the Senate. And we overwhelmingly rejected and repudiated that running-on-empty proposal they’ve got.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, so do you support adding four more justices? Is that something you have –
REP. JAMIE RASKIN:
Oh. Well, that’s statutory. That’s a legislative proposal. It could be 13. It could be back to five, or six, or seven. The point is not to give away Congress’s power to decide.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But you’re open to adding more justices, it sounds like?
REP. JAMIE RASKIN:
Well, traditionally, we’ve had one justice for each federal circuit. So we have 13 federal circuits in America. And we only have nine justices, which means in the best of times, four circuits are completely left out. In fact, today, we’ve got five justices from the New York City Metropolitan area, one for each borough. I would think that all of those members of Congress from the West didn’t even realize that they were arguing against getting more justices on the court for their people. But that proposal’s not on the table, right now. But we can certainly discuss it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It sounds like you’re arguing for the possibility of more justices. Do you have faith in the legitimacy of this court, this current court –
REP. JAMIE RASKIN:
No. No. It’s been stacked, and packed, and gerrymandered by Mitch McConnell and the Senate Republicans. Take, for example, my constituent, Merrick Garland. He was nominated to the Supreme Court, 11 months before the next election, in the final year of President Obama’s term. And Mitch McConnell said he would not allow a hearing, a vote in the judiciary committee, or a vote on the floor. He said 11 months was too close to the next election. But then when Ruth Bader Ginsburg died four years later, two months before the next election, early voting had already started in some states, he laughed about that and said, “Oh. That was a rule we created for the Democrats.” And that’s why they put Gorsuch on the court. “We’re going to barrel this through, for Amy Coney Barrett.” That’s two seats, right there, that were essentially stolen by the Republicans. And by the way, he was happy to keep that open for a year, making it eight justices, not nine. So think about that. Now, they want to sacralize and constitutionalize nine because Donald Trump likes the fact that they overturned abortion rights, they destroyed the Voting Rights Act, and they dealt Donald Trump presidential immunity for felony crimes he commits in office, something nobody had noticed for more than two centuries within the Constitution.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you though, Congressman, because you’ve seen President Trump accuse justices of — or judges of not being legitimate because he disagrees with a decision that they have, says they’re political. What’s the difference between that and what you’re saying –
REP. JAMIE RASKIN:
Oh. I’m talking about process failures. I’m talking about actually interference with the process, where we say, “We’re not going to have anybody considered for a year before the election,” but then doing it for your own team. And that’s exactly what Mitch McConnell did. That is a form of illegitimacy in the process. There is also illegitimacy, in terms of their jurisprudence. And there’s definitely illegitimacy, in terms of their ethics. And I’d love to come back some time, to talk about the ethics of this Supreme Court, because in Congress we’ve got a $50 gift ban. These are people who are taking hundreds of thousands of dollars from their billionaire sugar daddies, like Harlan Crow.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Very quickly, because Republicans are warning that if Democrats retake the House, your first move is you’re going to move to impeach President Trump, do you support that? Would you want to move to impeach President Trump, should Democrats retake the House?
REP. JAMIE RASKIN:
Look. Everybody on our side understands that impeachment is a critical tool in the toolbox for constitutional self-defense against a president acting like a king, an imperious, lawless, arrogant king. On the other hand, Donald Trump already has 50% of the impeachments of a president in American history. And we saw what happened last time. He incited a mob to storm the Capitol, to attack his own Vice President and Congress. We impeached him, in the House. And we could get only seven Republican senators to join us. We were ten short, again, because of Mitch McConnell. So –
KRISTEN WELKER:
So you don’t support impeachment. You think it would be a waste of time?
REP. JAMIE RASKIN:
No. Impeachment is not a taboo with us. It’s not a fetish with us. We understand it’s not a panacea. It is a tool in the toolbox. We will not hesitate to use it, if we need to use it. But you also understand, the framers gave it Congress, rather than the Supreme Court, because they wanted us to contextualize impeachment in the whole sphere of things we’ve got to deal with, like getting healthcare back to our people, because they’ve thrown millions of people off their healthcare with the Medicaid cuts and the destruction of ACA tax credits.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you believe that President Trump has committed impeachable offenses, at this point?
REP. JAMIE RASKIN:
Undoubtedly. We don’t even have time to remotely scratch the surface. But going to war without a declaration –
KRISTEN WELKER:
What’s one? Okay.
REP. JAMIE RASKIN:
– of war, for example, continually defying Congress, in terms of our appropriation of money, stealing our spending power from us. I mean, I would say even just bulldozing the East Wing of the White House, if you can bulldoze the East Wing, he can bulldoze the West Wing. He believes that he is a king. They have been plundering money from our government in the most massively corrupt presidential administration in American history. I mean, his son-in-law, Jared Kushner, brought back billions of dollars from Saudi Arabia, and Qatar, and the other corrupt oil monarchies. They are engaged in all kinds of insider political trading. And, he, Donald Trump has made more money in a year and a half as president of the United States than every other president in American history combined, and every member of the House and the Senate have made in our legitimate salaries in this Congress. So nothing comes close to the kind of plunder and corruption we’ve been seeing in this administration. And all of that could warrant an impeachment investigation, if we wanted to do it. But more important to us right now is getting healthcare to the American people and ending the lawlessness.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. Congressman Jamie Raskin, thank you so very much for being here. We really appreciate it.
REP. JAMIE RASKIN:
You bet. Thanks for having me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. And when we come back, the midterms are just nine weeks away. Can Republicans still hold on to control of Congress? The panel’s next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back, the panel is here. NBC News Capitol Hill correspondent Julie Tsirkin, Amy Walter, editor in chief of the Cook Political Report, Republican strategist and NBC News contributor Matt Gorman, and Steve Ricchetti, former counselor to President Biden and our newest Meet the Press contributor, welcome to all of you. Congratulations Steve.
STEVE RICCHETTI:
Thank you. It’s great to be here.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Nice to officially have you on board. Amy, I have to start with you. Here we are, Labor Day weekend, 58 days to go.
AMY WALTER:
We’re so close.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You just heard from Senator Kennedy and Congressman Raskin. Set the stage for us.
AMY WALTER:
Yeah. I mean, I think it’s really clear the environment is about as bad for the party in the White House than I’ve seen in at least 20 years. The president has in your own polling, 36% job approval, 31% approving of his handling of the war. The reason that it does not necessarily, nobody can predict just how strong this environment will be, or that there will be an actual blowout, is the deepening partisanship we have. Unlike 2006, people are more partisan now. They stick with their party more than ever. Which is why the bigger challenge right now for Republicans is whether they can get their base out to vote. This is what I hear from Republican strategists. Their worry is that, not that their voters are necessarily going to go out and vote for a Democrat, but they’re not going to show up at all. The reason that they’re not showing up right now, the economy. And I thought that was very notable that Senator Kennedy in his interview with you said Congress probably basically should’ve done more to show the American public, we know that inflation and cost of living is important to you, and we need to show that we can handle that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Julie, pick up on that point and of course, President Trump attempting to get the base out. He’s holding this big convention in Dallas this week. Affordability front and center for voters. The question is what will the messaging be that we hear from the president.
JULIE TSIRKIN:
And that’s one of the biggest things I’m watching for. Well, one of the biggest things because one of them is also how many Republicans, especially in key races, actually show up in a place like Texas, in a place that the president is billing as so important for these next 60 days. And the second biggest question is will he stay on message. I’ll pick up where you left off because I’ve covered the Hill, I’ve spent my time around the White House. And in talking to sources, it is very clear that they wish the president was on message sooner. The economy is a very poignant message. When he ran on immigration on 2020, they felt like that was a strong, focused message. He’s been off focus. He’s been talking about vanity projects as one source put it to me. He’s been talking about the Iran War, but not in a way that people understand when they’re going and seeing these rising costs. So this is going to be a moment for the president to really set the tone to unite the base, because there are concerns about that. But also, as I’m talking to my sources, allow Republicans to run their own races.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, so talk about setting the tone, Matt. We learned on Saturday that President Trump giving his first expenditure, if you will, $10 million to Ken Paxton in Texas. Texas wasn’t in play at the beginning of this election cycle. Now it is in play. What do you make of this strategy that we’re seeing, and apparently, according to public reports, he still has about $400 million in MAGA, Inc.
MATT GORMAN:
One thing that’s always on message is television ads.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, right? Exactly.
MATT GORMAN:
One thing, MAGA, Inc. is always ready to engage on this. I think Texas will be the first, certainly it won’t be the last. I’ve been hearing this for weeks. I know they have more ads cut and ready to go. But what you won’t see happen is a telegraph of where they’re going, how much they’re spending, and when, in some big announcement or a memo. You’ll see it when the ad buys happen, like you did yesterday. I’m keeping my eye more broadly on the Midwest. I think that’s a place we need to invest to get numbers up there. There are some bright spots. I’m hearing about encouraging polling in New York, people out running the environment a little bit. But what I’m also watching for too is — there’s always in every cycle those people who are not on your radar until about two or three weeks before Election Day. And it comes online and you realize they’re in real trouble. That’s just how these things tend to go.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. Steve, one of the fascinating things that we’re seeing on the Democratic side, a range of different strategies. Some candidates going sharply after President Trump, others squarely focused on affordability. But some actually embracing President Trump a little bit. I want to play a little bit of this and get your reaction on the other side.
[BEGIN TAPE]
VOICE-OVER: As governor, he bucked his party to oppose defunding the police, worked with Republicans to strengthen bail laws, and partnered with President Trump to crack down on fentanyl.
JOSH TUREK: I’m Josh Turek and in the US Senate, I’ll work with anyone to fix it, including President Trump, to secure the border, stop the flow of drugs into Iowa.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
What do you make of these disparate strategies?
STEVE RICCHETTI:
Well, first of all I think it depends again on the state and how people are running and approaching the state. So there’s no cookie-cutter, national model for how to run a campaign and particularly in a cycle like this midterm cycle. But there’s no way to pretend that this is not going to be a referendum on the Trump presidency and the work of the Republican-majority Congress. And again, Senator Kennedy couldn’t have said it better. There’s going to be focus from the Democratic side on affordability, on prices, on the cost of living. President Trump has historically high disapproval levels of his presidency at this stage. This Republican Congress has refused to really pick up the pace and address the rising costs of health care, of gas, historically high diesel prices, of electricity, of utilities of every variety, and of housing. The cost of living for middle class families for average Americans is exploding. And they need help and intervention. And so far, this Republican Congress and the president has not provided it. And I think that’s going to be the decisive issue in this election.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Matt, do you see this as a referendum? Senator Kennedy did lean into the fact that he believes it would be. And is there enough time to address some of these concerns over the cost of living?
MATT GORMAN:
Well, that’s always the challenge in midterm cycles, right? It starts out as a referendum, but good campaigns and good candidates make it a choice. They make it a contrast. That’s how it’s so important to actually run campaigns and run good ones. And that’s what the committees are doing and that’s why you need to invest a lot of that, either it’s MAGA money, the NRCC, NRSC, working to define these opponents. Again, I noticed your first question and what people are talking about in a lot of these races is Abdul El-Sayed. Rogers has made that choice between him and El-Sayed. Other candidates need to do the same.
AMY WALTER:
And that’s why Josh Turek, one of the candidates that you mentioned there who was driving in the car, talking about working with President Trump, that is his — he cannot be seen as a generic Democrat. In a state that went for Trump by double digits, if you’re seen as a generic Democrat, you are going to lose. It’s going to be harder to make him out to be somebody who’s too far left, somebody who’s with the Democratic Socialists, for example.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Alright, guys. Everyone stick around, we have much more to discuss. But when we come back, as the nation prepares to mark the 25th anniversary of 9/11, we’re going to look back at the American response that would transform the nation. Our Meet the Press Minute is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. This week will mark 25 years since the September 11th terrorist attacks that took the lives of nearly 3,000 Americans. Less than a week after the attacks, Vice President Dick Cheney joined Meet the Press from Camp David. The nation was demanding answers and bracing for the U.S. response. And the vice president warned of a long-term fight that could take years.
[BEGIN TAPE]
TIM RUSSERT:
When the president went to the World Trade Center on Friday, he said, “The people who did this will hear from all of us soon.” There’s an expectation in the country that we’re about to pay back big time quickly. What should the American people think or feel about that?
VICE PRES. DICK CHENEY:
I think the important thing here Tim is for people to understand that things have changed since last Tuesday. The world’s shifted in some respects. Clearly what we’re faced with here is a situation where terrorism has struck home in the United States. We’ve been subject targets of terrorist attacks before, especially overseas with our forces and American personnel overseas. But this time, because of what happened in New York and what happened in Washington, it’s a qualitatively different set of circumstances. It’s also important for people to understand that this is a long-term proposition. It’s not like, well, even Desert Storm, where we had a build up for a few months, four days of combat, and it was over with. This is going to be the kind of work that will probably take years. Because the focus has to be not just on any one individual, the problem here is terrorism.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
All day Friday, NBC News will bring you special coverage, including never-before-seen archives and stories from Americans on how 9/11 changed their lives. And when we come back, if Democrats win back control of Congress, what can be expected? We’ll have much more with the panel next. Stay with us.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back, the panel is still here. Julie Tsirkin, I want to have you respond to what we heard from Congressman Raskin, clearly leaving the door open to impeachment, even going so far as to say President Trump has committed impeachable offenses, he believes, and laying some of them out. But also saying, “We need to focus on Medicare,” a little bit of a window into what we might see, should Democrats take back the House.
JULIE TSIRKIN:
Absolutely. And I think it’s a window into the tug and pull that you’re seeing right now within the party, trying to figure out what they will do if they do win the majority. If we have a Speaker Jeffries with the gavel, they want to focus on affordability, right? All of these issues that they feel like the president is getting wrong. Let’s get those voters on our side, right? The pocketbook issues, the table — kitchen table issues. But Democrats during the first era of Trump and in the middle have pursued very strong impeachment strategies, let’s go after the president, that’s really what they ran on. And I feel like we are in a different moment. For a former impeachment manager to tell you that impeachment is a tool, not a panacea, tells you everything you have to know. They will go after the corruption, but they know that Democratic voters and the base want more than just opposing Trump.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Matt, what about you?
MATT GORMAN:
It’s no longer the pressure valve that you can always hit to release the pressure on Democrats, I mean, ask Alex Vindman, Diana Degette, Dan Goldman, these are impeachment figures in Trump one, how that worked out, they all lost their primaries this time. But what also struck me with Raskin was that when Raskin does something, it is righteous and virtuous. But if Trump did the same thing that it’s impeachable and abhorrent, right? There’s such a hypocritical double standard, especially when you play it on stolen elections. Especially for him in the same interview to be lecturing my party on democracy and norms. I thought it was extremely hypocritical, I thought it was a disgusting allegation. But that struck me, that contrast in the interview.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Steve?
STEVE RICCHETTI:
I really think there’s going to be accountability that Democrats are focused on affordability, prices, cost of living, the kitchen-table issues by far. That is where the priority and the focus is. But there is no question there’s going to be accountability for the corruption, for the excess, for the abuse of power that has existed coming out of this White House. And it’s going to occur on both sides. And it is overdue. It should’ve been pressed for months. Senator Kennedy was right about sleepwalking through the last six months of inflation and the price effect on people’s lives. And there needs to be bipartisan levels of scrutiny and oversight for what has occurred in the past two years. There’s a book.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, so Amy, Steve is talking about oversight. How might that play particularly as Democrats turn their sights to 2028?
AMY WALTER:
Right.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And having the White House.
AMY WALTER:
I mean, I think Julie’s point is correct. There is going to be this, there’s this pent-up energy right now from the Democratic base to hold not just Trump accountable, but those who they see have emboldened Trump, who have bent a knee perhaps to Trump. So there’s going to be focus on companies or corporations who they feel are part of this. But there’s also this desire to show that this is a party that stands for more than just being anti-Trump. The anti-Trump energy got Democrats the House in 2018. It helped Biden win in 2020. It wasn’t enough in 2024. It’s not enough in 2026. The final thing I’ll say, I thought it was very interesting, again, Jamie Raskin, impeachment manager, represents one of the bluest dots in Congress, is out in rural America. This is where we’re all going to look on election night to see if it is true that partisanship is not as strong as we thought it was, that there are real cracks in the strength of the Trump coalition. It will be because of diesel prices, the crisis in rural health care, in places like Michigan, Iowa.
STEVE RICCHETTI::
Alaska.
AMY WALTER:
Alaska.
MATT GORMAN:
Iowa, ground zero for — on election night. Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
What are you hearing, Julie, on the Hill in terms of how this type of a strategy might play and could it backfire ultimately against Democrats?
JULIE TSIRKIN:
For Democrats, absolutely. I mean, you’ve seen already during the president’s State of the Union, Al Green of Texas, right, going up, saying, “Let’s impeach him, let’s do all these things.” And leadership did not want him to say that and do that in that moment. This is a completely different landscape right now. And I really didn’t see it as much as I did when I spent time on the campaign trail this summer. From Kentucky to Michigan to New York, I mean, Democratic base voters, particularly those that are online, under 25, they want something different and more. And Democratic leaders can’t just ignore that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Matt, do you think that a Democratic Congress gives President Trump the foil that he wants in some ways?
MATT GORMAN:
Trump is best when he has an enemy. And I think one of the things I’m also watching is how they respond to a possible Vance presidential run. Do they investigate him and do they run headlong in executive privilege processes? I think that’s going to be something I’m watching for very closely as well.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, guys. Fantastic conversation. Thank you all very much for being here. That is all for today. Thank you so much for watching. We will be back next week because if it’s Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.
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