KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: Trade offs. President Trump meets Chinese President Xi Jinping in a high stakes summit — with trade, security and the future of the world’s two largest economies on the line.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
You’re a great leader. Sometimes people don’t like me saying it, but I say it anyway, because it’s true. I only say the truth.
KRISTEN WELKER:
As China expands its global power — what did the president actually gain? Plus: Cost crisis. The economic fallout from the war with Iran is hitting home — as inflation climbs to a three-year high and the issue becomes a midterm flashpoint.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
I don’t think about Americans’ financial situation. I don’t think about anybody. I think about one thing. We cannot let Iran have a nuclear weapon.
REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES:
Donald Trump and Republicans don’t give a damn
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Short term pain. It’s going to be short-term pain, but the pain is much less than people thought.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Are Americans paying the price? My guests this morning: Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina and Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland. And: Legal pressure.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
He’s a dirty cop. He’s a crooked man.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Former FBI Director James Comey joins us exclusively as he faces a second indictment from the Trump administration. Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Chief Capitol Hill Correspondent Ryan Nobles, Adrienne Elrod, former senior adviser to the Harris campaign and Lanhee Chen, a fellow at the Hoover Institution. Welcome to Sunday. It’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. Overnight, the latest target of President Trump’s retribution campaign going down in defeat. Two-term Louisiana Republican Senator Bill Cassidy losing his bid for reelection to a Trump-backed challenger who advances to a runoff. This, after Senator Cassidy voted to convict Mr. Trump in his impeachment trial during the first term. We’ll have much more on that coming up. But first, the president returned to Washington after his two-day summit in Beijing with Chinese President Xi Jinping. An historic meeting the president said strengthened ties between the two nations, but which did not produce a major agreement on trade or a commitment from China to help end the war with Iran.
[BEGIN TAPE]
REPORTER:
Mr. President, did President Xi make any firm commitment to put pressure on the Iranians to reopen the Strait of Hormuz?
PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I’m not asking for any favors, because when you ask for favors, you have to do favors in return. We don’t need favors.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Meanwhile, tensions intensifying in the Middle East. A fragile ceasefire still holding but the Strait of Hormuz remains closed. And major questions remain about what comes next. Here at home, the economic impact of the war is putting new pressure on American households, with inflation hitting a 3-year high this week and gas prices remaining above four dollars and 50 cents a gallon. President Trump making this striking admission earlier in the week.
[BEGIN TAPE]
REPORTER:
When you’re negotiating with Iran, Mr. President, to what extent are Americans’ financial situation motivating you to make a deal?
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Not even a little bit. The only thing that matters when I’m talking about Iran, they can’t have a nuclear weapon. I don’t think about Americans’ financial situation, I don’t think about anybody. I think about one thing. We can not let Iran have a nuclear weapon. That’s all.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And joining me now is Republican Senator Lindsey Graham of South Carolina. Senator Graham, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Thank you very much.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Thank you for being here after an historic week.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let’s start right there with the president’s summit in China. One of the biggest issues discussed was Taiwan. Just for our viewers, it’s a self-ruling democracy that China has vowed to control. Now Congress voted to approve billions of dollars in arms sales to defend the island. But in an interview after the summit, President Trump would not commit to supporting Taiwan. I want to play a little bit of what he had to say.
[BEGIN TAPE]
BRET BAIER:
You’re waiting on approving billions of dollars of weapons for Taiwan. Is that moving forward?
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Well, I haven’t approved it yet. We’re going to see what happens.
BRET BAIER: What are you looking for?
PRES. DONALD TRUMP: I may do it, I may not do it.
BRET BAIER:
Yeah, what’s your, your hinge point?
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Well, I’m not going to say that, but I may do it, I may not do it.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, can Taiwan be secure without U.S. support?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Well, I think it’s in our interest to make sure they can be secure. The country for a long time has a one-China policy. Now, what does that mean? We don’t recognize two Chinas. We recognize one China with two systems. It’s been the policy of the United States to help provide military aid to Taiwan. We have economic integration with Taiwan. So I want to continue that policy, strategic ambiguity. What would we do if China invaded Taiwan? Well, we have strategic ambiguity. Trump says, President Trump “It’ll be up to me and me alone.” And he’s right about that. What can I do as a member of Congress? We’ll be introducing with Senator Sullivan from Alaska hard-hitting pre-invasion sanctions that would put tariffs and sanctions on China if they did invade Taiwan. I want China to know: If you invade Taiwan, try to take Taiwan by force, here’s what happens to your economy. The full weight and measure of sanctions and tariffs from the United States will kick in on day one. That’s what I want to do to deter an invasion. As to the weapons sales, if the president decides not to approve the package, I’ll leave that up to him. But I hope he will be able to tell the country by saying no to the weapons package, “I got an agreement with China that makes Taiwan more secure.” We’ll see what happens.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You want him to send the weapons though? And does he support the sanctions package you just talked about?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Oh, I haven’t talked to him about it. But I think there’ll be overwhelming support in Congress to let China-- if we’d done this with Russia: If you invade Ukraine here’s what happens to you on day one. I don’t think they would have invaded. So let’s make it clear to China: If you try to take Taiwan by force, here’s what happens to your economy on day one. I’m hoping that the administration would support that. In terms of weapons sales, it’s up to the president. I would encourage him to make Taiwan strong so we can deter aggression. If you give an inch on China, uh on Taiwan, I think they’ll take a mile. But we’re not looking for war. We’re not looking for conflict. I want to keep the status quo.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just to follow up on that point. President Trump warned other countries last year that when it comes to Iranian oil, quote, “If you buy it, you’re not doing any business with the United States.” As you know China buys 90% of Iran’s oil. Are you disappointed that President Trump wasn’t able to get China to stop buying Iranian oil during this summit?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Well, President Trump said, “We don’t need China. I’m not looking for a favor from China to help to end the Iranian conflict.” But here’s the soft underbelly of Iran. They’re a fossil-fuel economy. As to Russia, we’re very close to sanctions being passed by the Congress that will allow the president to put tariffs and sanctions on the shadow fleet. And any country that buys cheap Russian oil to prop up Putin that doesn’t help Ukraine can be tariffed. He put a 25% tariff on India, President Trump did, for buying Russian oil. There’ll come a moment here where China is going to have to be held accountable for what they’re doing. And without China buying Iranian oil, their economy would collapse. So where are we with Iran? I think we’ve hit a wall when it comes to negotiations. Here’s what the president said just a couple of days ago. “Basically, I can say this with uh, I’m not going to be much more patient. Any sane person would make a deal, but they might be crazy.” The president’s had it with moving the goal post. If you get a deal, the next day they wake up. In the president’s word, “It’s like we never had the conversation.” So what happens next? I think we hit a wall on deal making. I would encourage the president look at reducing Iran’s military capability even further. They’ve been dramatically weakened, but there’s still targets that could weaken them more militarily. And I would also keep the embargo on to weaken their economy. And I’d let the Iranians know, “If you keep terrorizing the region, Kharg Island, which is your source of revenue, will be in play.” I think that would be the smart next play. You can’t pursue a deal more than the people on the other side want a deal.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you. I just want to be very explicit. You are saying you think these negotiations have hit a wall.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yes, ma’am.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Are you saying, Senator, that you think it’s time for President Trump to resume military action against Iran?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I think you can’t get a coherent answer from Iran because they can’t be coherent. I think they’re so disheveled now. They’re so weakened. They agree to things, and the next day, they back up. President Trump’s very frustrated. So what to do next? I think it’s going to be very difficult to get a deal with the current regime. Is there any evidence that they’ve changed? I talked to the CIA director yesterday. “Is there any evidence that the crowd in charge now is any less committed to destroying Israel? Going after us, the great Satan, purifying Islam.” I think the answer is no. So weaken them further, and you may get a deal later. But you’re not going to get a deal with this crowd until you hurt them more.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So you’re saying it sounds like you do support more military action at this point. Do you think that’s something that will happen? Do you think it could happen in days--
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I think —
KRISTEN WELKER:
– weeks, months?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I think the status quo is hurting us all. The longer the strait is closed, the more we try to pursue a deal that never happens, the stronger Iran gets. So my analysis is there’s nothing to suggest that the people in charge now are any different in terms of the regime’s goal to terrorize the world, destroy Israel, come after us. So what do you do next? You weaken them further. So what President Trump has done has been amazing militarily. But there’s still more targets to be had. And there’s things we can do to hurt. The energy infrastructure is their soft underbelly. If you go back to the fight, I’d put energy on top of the list.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So you’re calling for strikes on the energy infrastructure —
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I am —
KRISTEN WELKER:
– Senator?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah, I’m calling to hurt this regime. If you do the same old thing, you’re going to get the same result. Hurt them more. Maybe they’ll make a deal if you hurt them enough. But right now, I think they’re trying to wait us out. I think they’re playing games. And in the words of the president, I think they’re crazy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator —
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I think he’s right.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, the goal of this, one of the key goals from President Trump was to get their Iran, Iran’s nuclear capabilities, to wipe that out. How does the United States retrieve Iran’s nuclear material without sending in ground forces?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Well, hopefully he can do it diplomatically.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But don’t you need to send in ground forces if you want to retrieve it which is what we did. Prime Minister —
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
He wants to --
KRISTEN WELKER:
– Netanyahu talks about —
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
He wants to get the nuclear dust. There’s another way to do it. And I talked to him about it yesterday. Draw a circle around where we know it’s at. Call it the circle of death. Anybody goes inside the circle is going to die until we can find a way to deal with this. The goal is to make sure they can’t retrieve it. They can’t make a dirty bomb. They can’t further enrich --their enrichment capability has been obliterated at least for a couple years.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Let me turn to the economy and the economic effects of the war which are being felt here at home. Inflation has climbed to the highest annual rate in three years. Gas prices are at a four-year high. Grocery prices are climbing. President Trump was pressed on how all of these factors impact how he views his negotiations with Iran. Take a look.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
I don’t think about Americans’ financial situation. I don’t think about anybody. I think about one thing, you cannot let Iran have a nuclear weapon. That’s all.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you agree with the president that he shouldn’t be taking Americans’ financial situation into account when dealing with Iran?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
That’s his Churchill moment. When Churchill came into power, he promised “blood, sweat, toil, heartache until we deal with the Nazis who are an existential threat to the British way of life.” And if Hitler had taken charge of the planet, it would have been the darkest hour in humanity.
I believe Iran wants the nuclear weapon. They would use it. So does President Trump. And they would use it for their religious agenda. They would destroy the Jewish state. They would eventually hold us hostage. So his audience, the Iranian regime. Do I worry about gas prices? Yes. But President Trump’s right. The biggest threat to the hostility in the world is a nuke-armed Iran. And whatever price we have to pay, we will pay. What did Churchill say? Whatever price we have to pay to beat Hitler, we will pay. Same with Iran.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You just —
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
The good news, we’re inside the ten-yard line. I think if we go back to military activity, weaken them further, then we can end this thing pretty soon.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, you take me to my next question because 70% of Americans in a new poll say President Trump is doing a bad job on the economy, the number one issue for voters, as you know. Bottom line, is it worth losing the midterms if the result is a non-nuclear Iran?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
It’s worth losing my job. If I had to give my job up to make sure Iran would never have a nuclear weapon, I would do it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Would you give up the House and the Senate?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
I would give up — politically, the most important thing I can do with the job I’ve been given is to protect the American people. Now, you don’t have to agree with me. But I’ve been this way for 20 years. I believe they’re religious Nazis in Iran. If they had a nuclear weapon, they would use it. They’ve been trying to get one. They’ve been cheating. Obama and Biden were jokes when it came to containing Iran. Trump is doing something people should have done a long time ago. But here’s the good news. Gas prices will come down when you put Iran in a box. Saudi-Israel peace will become possible when you put Iran in a box. The upside of dealing with Iran is enormously good. But you got to deal with them.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, let me ask you about the news overnight. Senator Bill Cassidy losing his primary in Louisiana. You worked closely with Senator Bill Cassidy on a range of different issues including a plan to replace Obamacare. He of course voted to convict President Trump back in 2021 in the impeachment trial. Now he’s lost his seat. Are you glad that Senator Cassidy is no longer going to be your colleague, Senator?
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
No. I like Bill. I thought he was a great senator. But he made a political decision. He tried to, he voted to impeach President Trump which would have ruined his political life. He could never run for office again. Massie’s on the ballot Tuesday. He votes against Trump all the time. What’s the headline? Trump’s strong. Those who try to destroy Trump politically, stand in the way of his agenda, are going to lose. Bill made a decision. What would LBJ do? Is it natural for a politician to go after people who try to destroy their political life? So Bill Cassidy lost because he tried to destroy Trump. Massie’s going to lose because he’s trying to destroy the agenda. You can disagree with President Trump, but if you try to destroy him, you’re going to lose. Because this is the party of Donald Trump.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Very quickly, does his defeat send a message if this is the party of Donald Trump, that there’s no room in the party to break with President Trump —
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
No, I just talked to him a few minutes ago. We have a difference —
KRISTEN WELKER:
President Trump, you talked to —
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Yeah, just a few minutes ago. There’s no room in this party to destroy his agenda or destroy him and his family as a Republican. Democrats do it all the time. If you align with Democrats to stop his agenda like Massie does, you’re going to lose. If you align with Democrats to drive him out of office like Cassidy did, you’re going to lose. I disagree with Trump, on President Trump on occasion. He endorsed me. It’s been enormously helpful to me. Thank you, President Trump, for endorsing me. It’s helped me in my primary. It’s just a reality. And it’s a good reality. I think President Trump’s doing a hell of a good job. And if you get, if you try to destroy him, you’re going to get destroyed. That’s the takeaway.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Senator Lindsey Graham, thank you so much for being here in person —
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– to discuss a very busy week. We really appreciate it. When we come back Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back and joining me now is Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland. Senator Van Hollen, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:
It’s great to be with you, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It’s great to have you back. We really appreciate your being here. Let’s start with President Trump’s summit in China. He returned without securing a commitment from China to help broker an end to the war in Iran. I’m curious, do you think that the U.S. needs China’s support in order to bring an end to the war with Iran?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:
I don’t think we need China’s support. I think the fastest way to end the war in Iran is just to stop digging a hole even deeper, and that’s what we should do right now. After all, Donald Trump was the candidate who said he was going to keep us out of wars and he was going to focus on bringing down prices. And of course, he’s done just the opposite. Gas and other prices are going through the roof. He says he’s not thinking about American finances and he’s gotten into — gotten us into this war that’s making us less safe. So no, we don’t need China to get us out. We just need to end it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, you’ve made it very clear you agree with the premise of the war, which is that Iran should never obtain a nuclear weapon. Based on what you’re saying, that it’s time to just get out of Iran, do you think diplomacy could actually bring about another Iran nuclear deal at this point, Senator?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:
Well, I know if we had people who were willing to negotiate we could get it done, because we got that done when President Obama was in office. We had the JCPOA. The JCPOA prevented Iran from getting a nuclear weapon. It dramatically contained its nuclear enrichment program, and it had the world’s most intense inspection regime so that if they cheated, we could catch them like that. And of course, just last year Donald Trump told the country that he had obliterated Iran’s nuclear enrichment program, taken care of it. And his head of DNI, Tulsi Gabbard, testified that they have no evidence that Iran wants to resume it. So the president got dragged into this war. Prime Minister Netanyahu said that he’d been waiting 40 years for somebody to go to war with him in Iran. He found a president stupid enough to do it. I blame Donald Trump for that decision, but here we are.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, let me shift gears now, Senator. I do want to ask you about something that unfolded this week on Capitol Hill. This was your heated exchange with FBI Director Kash Patel. It was during a Senate hearing this week where the two of you sparred over reporting about Patel’s alleged drinking habits. We have to stress that Patel has denied all of the allegations against him. But I do want to play a section from that hearing and get your reaction on the other side. Take a look.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:
So there have been no occasions during your tenure when FBI personnel were unable to promptly reach you?
FBI DIRECTOR KASH PATEL:
Absolutely not. You can ask my entire workforce. They hear from me at every single hour of the day, as do these great gentlemen here, as do the men and women at the inner agency, and state and local law enforcement, and the White House.
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:
And so there have been no occasions when your security detail had difficulty waking or locating you. Is that right?
FBI DIRECTOR KASH PATEL:
Nope, it’s a total farce. I don’t even know where you get this stuff, but it doesn’t make it credible because you say so.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you believe that the FBI can function effectively with Director Patel in charge?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:
Oh, I don’t, but it’s not simply because of this issue, the fact that there are so many reports that indicate that his drinking has meant that he’s incapacitated at — at many times. As I said, Kristen, I really don’t care what he does on his free time, so long as he’s not putting the public at risk, so long as he’s not compromising his important mission as Director of the FBI. But beyond this, we also have the fact that he has completely weaponized the FBI. He went after agents who were — helped to investigate the January 6th rioters. More recently, he went after agents who were a part of the investigation of Trump’s taking classified materials to — to Mar-a-Lago. They didn’t decide to do that. They were following their orders, and by the way, many of them were part of the counter-espionage unit with respect to Iran. So he fired them at the very moment we need them most when we have this conflict with Iran. So I — I think he needs to go for a whole host of reasons.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well Senator, you took the alcohol use disorder’s identification test. You challenged Director Patel to do the same. Do you have any indication that he’s actually going to take that test? Or do you think that that was a challenge that, to some extent, you did just to prove a point?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:
Well, he said in — in public testimony that he would do it. He’s also under oath automatically in the sense that lying to Congress is a crime. So he said he’s going to do it. My — my sense from Patel’s conduct overall is he may or may not do it, but I unfortunately won’t be able to believe the results, because in that hearing, he did lie several times.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, well, I do want to turn to the redistricting battle where Democrats have faced, as you know, Senator, a series of recent setbacks in the courts. Do you believe that Democrats are in danger of losing their fight to win back the House?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:
I do not. I think the Democrats will win back the House because there’s so much momentum. People are extremely upset, as they should be, with the fact that, you know, Trump has handled the economy in a terrible way. Prices are going through the roof. Life is unaffordable for millions and millions of Americans. He started a war that he promised that he wouldn’t. And so I think the momentum is very much there. Now, obviously these decisions, including the more recent, you know, attack on the Voting Rights Act, which was a hugely, infamously bad decision, provides some setbacks. But I think — I think the political winds, Kristen, are blowing strongly enough that Democrats will win back the House.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, Maryland is actually considering redrawing its state maps after the Democrat-led state Senate previously rejected measures to redistrict and these new maps would, in fact, eliminate the state’s lone Republican representative. Do you support redrawing the lines before the midterms? What do you say to the charges it’s hypocritical?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:
Oh, I do if it’s possible. Look, here — here’s my view, Kristen. I’ve always supported nationwide, nonpartisan redistricting. We should put on a blindfold and we should draw congressional districts in nonpartisan ways. But Republicans have blocked that legislation at the federal level. Meanwhile, Trump has ordered Texas to engage in redistricting, which they did. So I am very much opposed to unilateral disarmament. I want to thank California for what they’re doing, the Virginians for what they did, despite their Supreme Court decision. And Maryland and other states should do what we can, because the future control of the House is at stake right here, and we need to do everything we can to prevent a continuation of what is a complete rubber stamp for Donald Trump –
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right.
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:
You heard Lindsey Graham. He said this is the party of Donald Trump. It is. It’s a personality cult. And we need checks and balances, not a personality cult of rubber stamps.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, Senator Chris Van Hollen, thank you so very much for being here.
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And when we come back, former FBI Director James Comey joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. And joining me now is former FBI Director James Comey, author of the new novel Red Verdict. Director Comey, welcome back to Meet the Press.
JAMES COMEY:
Great to be with you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Great to have you here. Congratulations on your novel. We’ll talk about it in just a moment. I do want to start with this extraordinary moment in which you find yourself. You’re facing a second indictment by the Trump administration, trial in just a few weeks potentially. I know you’re not going to comment on the specifics of the case, but I want to ask you a big-picture question. The charges against you stem from this Instagram post of seashells that spelled out “86 47.” You see it right there. The indictment says it was, quote, “a serious expression of an intent to do harm to the president of the United States.” Has being under this microscope changed the way you live your life, Director Comey?
JAMES COMEY:
It’s made me want to spend more time as a grandfather, pushing my grandkids on a swing and not talking to awesome people like yourself. But it hasn’t changed how I see the world or my life.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, I interviewed the Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche earlier this month. And he said, quote, “This is not just about a single Instagram post. This is about a body of evidence that the grand jury collected over a series of about 11 months.” Do you know what he’s talking about, evidence over a series of 11 months?
JAMES COMEY:
Yeah, I saw that, as you said just a few minutes ago. I don’t talk about the case because the federal court rules require you not. I would urge the acting attorney general to bone up on the rules.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So but do you know what he’s talking about with the other evidence?
JAMES COMEY:
I don’t want to comment on it because then someone will say I’m commenting on the case. He ought not to be talking about it, I can’t talk about it. That’s why we have a judicial process in a courtroom.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Fair enough. In an interview with Stephen Colbert last year, you did address what you were thinking when you and your wife were walking on the beach. You said you saw the shells in the sand. I want to just play a little bit of what you told Stephen Colbert.
[BEGIN TAPE]
JAMES COMEY:
She looked at it and said, “Why did someone put their address in the sand?”
STEPHEN COLBERT:
All right.
JAMES COMEY:
And then we stood at it trying to figure, looked at it trying to figure out what it was. And she’d long been a server in restaurants. And she said, “You know what I think it is? I think it’s a reference to restaurants when you’d 86 something at a restaurant.”
STEPHEN COLBERT:
Right, off the menu.
JAMES COMEY:
Yeah. I said, “No, I remember when I was kid, you’d say ‘86’ to get out of a place. ‘This place stinks, let’s 86 it.’” And so I said, “I think it’s a clever political message.” And she said, “You should take a picture of it.” I said, “Sure.” And then she said, “You should Instagram that.” And boom.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just big picture Director Comey, what do you say to those who would argue the former director of the FBI shouldn’t be putting political posts on Instagram or social media?
JAMES COMEY:
Yeah, I’m a private citizen. I saw a shell in the fall of 2024 where someone wrote an endorsement of Kamala Harris in a big seashell. I took a picture of it, I thought it was very clever, and I think I wrote, “Ariel understands the assignment,” a reference to Little Mermaid. I’m a private citizen. Again, I’m not going to talk about that particular post, but I use Instagram the way any awkward, nerdy dad would.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, in the past, you’ve said you have faith in the legal system. As you face this second indictment, are you confident that you will be cleared one way or another?
JAMES COMEY:
I have complete faith in our judicial system. It’s the genius of our founders. It’s the, frankly, the only leg of our three-legged stool that is still standing in the U.S. government. But it’s standing tall and straight. It is the guardian of the rule of law. And I believe in it. And so let’s make use of it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And you’ve publicly posted you haven’t done anything wrong, you haven’t done anything illegal. So are you confident that at the end of the day, you’ll be cleared in one way or another?
JAMES COMEY:
Yeah, all I can do without making my lawyers angry at me is repeat what I said in my initial statement. I’m not just not guilty, I am innocent, and so let’s go.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. You have, if we look back, been in the cross hairs of politicians in the past. This is not new, from Hillary Clinton, the email investigations, the Russia probe. Looking back, Director Comey, is there anything you would’ve done differently over the past decade?
JAMES COMEY:
Anything? Yeah, lots of things in my life as a father and a grandfather--
KRISTEN WELKER:
–Anything in your professional?--
JAMES COMEY:
--and an FBI director.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So there you go.
JAMES COMEY:
There are all kinds of things that I screwed up. The major decisions that people often talk about I still see them the same. But yeah, I would be better in all kinds of ways if I had a magic wand.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, well let me be more specific because you’ve wondered out loud whether your decision to reopen the Clinton email investigation 11 days before voters went to the polls may have helped elect President Trump back in 2016. Knowing what you know now, would you have made the same, exact decision again?
JAMES COMEY:
I think so. The only thing I’ve wondered is whether I should’ve dumped that very difficult decision on the attorney general on October the 28th. She declined to speak to me, but I could’ve just sent her a memo saying, “Here’s what I think that we have to do.” But I decided then, and honestly ten years later, it feels the same. That would’ve been a chicken-blank thing to do. It was a decision that I had to make because I had testified all summer that the investigation was done and now it’s not done. Do I really conceal that from the American people, from the Congress? I can’t. And it would’ve been a chicken thing to do to dump it on the AG. But sometimes when people are unhappy with me on the street, I think, “Hmm, I should’ve left it for Loretta Lynch.”
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, ten years later, now that you’ve had all of this time to think about it, do you think that decision did play a role in the election of President Trump?
JAMES COMEY:
I hope not. My goal all of that year was to stay out of politics. And having seen two elections after that, where as I said, the difference the FBI made was late-deciding voters broke for Trump in ‘16, but then they did again in ‘20, and then they did again in ‘24, when I was home in my pajamas for both elections. So I don’t think so. But again, we made the decision because it was the least-bad option. Both options sucked, honestly. But this was the one most consistent with the values of the department. So as painful as it is, I’d have to do the same thing again.
KRISTEN WELKER:
President Trump was indicted twice by the Justice Department. As you know in public posts, he’s now justified going after his political enemies because of how he believes he was treated. Do you view the prosecutions against you as political payback?
JAMES COMEY:
Well, I can’t talk about the shell case. The one before--
KRISTEN WELKER:
Talk about the first one.
JAMES COMEY:
--that got dismissed, absolutely. And we made a motion to have it dismissed as a vindictive prosecution. The president of the United States cannot use the Justice Department to target people because he wants to retaliate against them. We just can’t operate as a republic if that happens. And so there’s a powerful argument to be made that’s illegal. We didn’t get to that, ‘cause there are all kinds of other problems with the case. But absolutely, going after John Brennan, after Jim Clapper, after Adam Schiff, all of these things are not about the merits. It’s about retaliation. And that is not just wrong, it’s a way in which our system cannot operate and be effective.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Does it make you and your family fearful?
JAMES COMEY:
No. ‘Cause I know what I’m dealing with, someone who’s announced he’s now the hunter? Okay, let’s go.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche told me earlier this month the evidence that was presented to a grand jury in this latest case, not the government, not the Department of Justice, he said, quote, “It’s not Todd Blanche that returned an indictment against James Comey, it’s the grand jury, part of the judicial process.” Does the fact that a grand jury issued this latest indictment undercut any argument that this latest indictment might be political retribution? Not that you have made this argument that you have made that argument here, but for those who would make that argument?
JAMES COMEY:
Yeah, I’m so tempted to answer that, but can I answer it about the last case, which is now gone?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Please.
JAMES COMEY:
Same argument was made, a grand jury returned an indictment, still doesn’t change the fact that it can be a vindictive prosecution. And there, of course, a magistrate judge found misconduct of a variety of kinds by the late-breaking appointed U.S. attorney Lindsey Halligan. And so it’s important. The grand jury’s an important part of the process. But there’s more to follow.
KRISTEN WELKER:
As you know, the FBI director is meant to serve a non-partisan, ten-year term. I don’t have to tell you that. You’re very familiar with that. Do you think the next president should keep FBI director Kash Patel in his position through his ten-year term?
JAMES COMEY:
The next president should make an evaluation about whether, whoever’s in that job, come January of 2029, is performing it in a way that’s consistent with the American people’s expectations of that organization, which is to be competent, honest, and independent. On the current record, it would be a tough continuation for the current director. But I don’t know. The president, whoever the president is then will have to make that evaluation.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you, because would it undermine the independence of the FBI if the next president doesn’t allow Patel to serve out that full ten-year term?
JAMES COMEY:
Well, again, the values are independence, competence, and honesty. And if by some stroke Mr. Patel is reflecting all of those values in another two years, then maybe the next president will want to keep him. But I think you have to have a competent, honest, and independent person leading that institution, else its other contributions to America are lost.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You’ve laid out the qualities that you think are necessary to be FBI director. Do you think Kash Patel has those qualities? Has he showcased that?
JAMES COMEY:
Not for me to say. Expression from law school keeps popping in my head, the res ipsa loquitur, which is Latin I think for, “The thing speaks for itself.” So I’ll let others make that judgment.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. Acting Attorney General Todd Blanche says that during the second Trump administration, so far, more than 200 people have been forced out of the Justice Department, that includes your own daughter, who was a federal prosecutor in New York. Do you have confidence in the Justice Department to serve the people of this country right now?
JAMES COMEY:
I do not, looked at from the top level. The people running it, if you’re bragging about forcing out career prosecutors and agents because the president doesn’t like a lawful investigation they conducted, something is seriously broken at the top. But I have great confidence in the people down below who are just trying to hang on. And I’m urging them, hang on. Two and a half years, and then we can rebuild these institutions. But we need good people in those roles. America does.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Director Comey, let me turn to your novel, Red Verdict. Here it is. Great book. It’s the latest in your series, quite frankly, of legal thrillers. It’s number four. You write scenes based on your decades of experience inside the DOJ. Do you think your novels still reflect the reality of the people serving in the Justice Department today?
JAMES COMEY:
Yes. Again, I’m going to exclude that top layer and sort of skim that off. Down below, yes. People join the Department of Justice, the FBI, which is part of the Department of Justice, because they want to do the right thing. And in the overwhelming main, they do. My characters are flawed because they’re humans, as I am. But they are good people trying to do the right thing. That’s what I love about this writing and I hope readers, first the stories are really cool and capture you, but most of all, the characters show something that is real and that ought to reassure all of us.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, one of the characters, the central character, based on your daughter you have said, I wonder what do you hope this next chapter will look like, for your daughter, for you, for your family in your actual, real life?
JAMES COMEY:
Well, next chapter for me will be more books. And then once a year, I will do interviews. So maybe we’ll see each other again. But for people like my daughter, my son-in-law who resigned from the U.S. Attorney’s Office in Virginia the day I was charged, they represent hundreds of quality people. I think they’re, I don’t want to tell them what their employment situation should be, but I hope they flow back. And I think lots and lots of great people will flow back with the opportunity to rebuild the department, which is what happened after Watergate. Great, young people came back to save us. And they will again.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Director James Comey, thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it.
JAMES COMEY:
Thanks for having me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Thank you. Great to talk to you. When we come back, President Trump back from Beijing after a high-stakes meeting with Xi Jinping, 54 years after Richard Nixon opened the door to China in an historic visit that changed the world. Our Meet the Press minute is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. Fifty-four years ago, Richard Nixon made history becoming the first sitting U.S. president to visit China. Meeting with Mao Zedong and ending a quarter-century of isolation between the two countries. The trip helped reshape the global balance of power. And ultimately paved the way for full diplomatic relations in 1979. Speaking with “Meet the Press” more than a decade after leaving the White House, Nixon reflected on that moment.
[BEGIN TAPE]
FMR. PRES. RICHARD NIXON:
I would say as people look back on the Nixon administration, they’re probably most likely to remember 50 years from now, 100 years from now, that it made a difference on a very major issue. We changed the world. If it had not been for the China initiative, which only I could do at that point, we would be in a terrible situation today, with China aligned with the Soviet Union and with the Soviet Union’s power. The China initiative hasn’t brought peace to the world. We can’t be sure that will happen. But without it, we would be in a terrible shape.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And when we come back, a Republican who voted to convict President Trump loses his primary. What does it mean for the GOP? The panel is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back, the panel is here. NBC News Chief Capitol Hill Correspondent Ryan Nobles, Democratic Strategist Adrienne Elrod, and Lanhee Chen, a fellow at the Hoover Institution. Welcome to all of you, thank you for being here on a jam-packed Sunday. Ryan, I have to start with you. These results overnight, dramatic. Louisiana Senator Bill Cassidy going down in defeat, losing his seat to Trump-backed challenger Julia Letlow, who fell short of winning outright. She would’ve needed 50% plus one in order to win. So she goes to a runoff with Fleming. What does this moment say about the grip that President Trump has over the Republican Party? You heard Senator Lindsey Graham say, “It’s clear, this is the party of Trump still.”
RYAN NOBLES:
Whether — it’s impossible to be a Republican in American politics right now and not be 100% in lockstep with Donald Trump. And that’s been proven time and time again. Bill Cassidy, when he cast that vote to convict President Trump in the wake of January 6th, he basically sealed his political fate. And there was no chance that Donald Trump was ever going to forget about that. But I have to imagine that there are a lot of Republicans that are running in very tight midterm elections in swing districts across the country that have to question the decision-making process of the Trump political apparatus to spend so much time and energy removing Republicans who vote with Donald Trump 90% to 95% of the time. It’s a lot of expense, it’s a lot of time, and the same applies to what’s happening in Kentucky here on Tuesday with Tom Massie. Donald Trump is on a revenge tour. He often wins those revenge tours. But what does it mean for the future health of the Republican Party?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Lanhee, pick up on that point. The Massie race, the most expensive primary in history. And the fact that, as Ryan is saying, he votes with Trump over 90% of the time.
LANHEE CHEN:
Sure.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So did Cassidy, by the way.
LANHEE CHEN:
Yeah, but it’s not enough, right? There’s two things that I’m reminded of here. One is how national our politics have become. It used to be the case, you’d like your member of Congress, they were somewhat disassociated from your opinion of the national party, you like your member of Congress, you don’t like Congress in general. We know all these trends from political science. That’s not the case anymore, right? Politics is nationalized and there’s no greater national figure in Republican politics than Donald Trump. The second thing I would say is Donald Trump is the sun, the moon, and the stars for Republican voters. He generates a massive gravitational pull. And the reason why his political apparatus is spending so much time trying to oust Republicans who vote with him 95% of the time is because they can find Republicans who vote with him 100% of the time. And that margin is worth it for that political apparatus to be able to have members of Congress who are totally aligned with President Trump. I think the warning signs are there for Massie for Tuesday night. The survey research suggests that that race has basically flipped against Massie over the last couple of weeks. I think people in Kentucky like him. They like Donald Trump more.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. It seemed like he was going to hold on. It certainly has gotten a lot tougher based on the recent polling. Adrienne, let me have you weigh in, this redistricting battle. In the wake of these legal defeats that Democrats have suffered, according to Dave Wasserman of the Cook Political Report, Democrats, he said, initially needed three seats to win back the House. Now he projects it’s more like ten. Has this become out of reach? You heard Senator Van Hollen say, “No, not at all.” But what are your conversations?
ADRIENNE ELROD:
Yeah, Senator Van Hollen is exactly right. I mean, look, what happened in Virginia was certainly a setback for Democrats. But Kristen, we’re going to win at the ballot box and we have been winning at the ballot box. I think the stat is 267 out of 297 special elections that have taken place since November of 2024, Democrats have either flipped those or significantly over-performed Republicans in those states. So we are showing that we can win. Trump is under water on almost every issue, from the economy, obviously affordability being a huge part of the economy, the war in Iran, gas prices. He is substantially under water. So we are winning at the ballot box. And look, we’re taking the fight to the states. I think this only underscores the importance of Democrats making sure that we have more state legislative wins, that we win more governor states, so that we can fight tooth and nail on this redistricting battle going forward.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, Ryan, pick up on that point because Adrienne’s talking about the economy’s going to be front and center. And here we have these comments that President Trump made as he’s departing for China, this historic trip. He’s pressed on the extent to which Americans’ financial situation factors into his negotiations with Iran, he says, “I don’t think about it.” How much is that playing on the Capitol Hill to the campaign trail with Republicans? What do they say?
RYAN NOBLES:
And you heard Senator Graham double down on that point with you today. Listen, President Trump is making a bet. That bet is that the American people believe a nuclear-free Iran is worth the cost of $5 a gallon of gasoline. And in many ways, he’s making the same argument that many presidents have made. In the wake of 9/11, in — during World War II, that Americans understand the cost of national security. I just don’t think there’s a lot of evidence that the situation in Iran carries the same level of weight that some of these other international conflicts have. And that if you look at the polling, 77% of Americans believe that the war in Iran is costing them financially. And if the economy is the dominant issue in the fall election, that is a very serious bet for the president to make. And if things don’t improve quickly, and I mean in the next couple of weeks, and those prices don’t start to come down, it’s hard to imagine how Republicans don’t pay that price in the fall.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, Lanhee, recent polls show 77% say President Trump’s policies have actually worsened their economic situation. Is there enough time for it to turn around, even if the war were to end in the next few weeks, say?
LANHEE CHEN:
I — I think the impressions are pretty well-baked. I mean, if you look at, for example, the public’s perception of the president’s handling of cost-of-living issues, there’s been a 20-point swing between last year and this year. That’s pretty tremendous. I think the key issue here is Democrats have a lot of energy going into this election. But they also have the challenge that their image is limited. I think a lot is capped. I think a lot of Americans question, for example, Democrats’ positioning on cultural issues. They question whether Democrats are really better able to handle the economy. That’s going to go up against this general trend we see in midterm elections where presidents have a tough time, and the president’s image in this particular situation, on cost-of-living issues, the top issue, is severely under water. So those are the trends we’re going to see. I think the redistricting thing has really helped Republicans, the likelihood that they retain the House is a lot higher now than it was before. And I still think the Senate stays Republican.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Adrienne?
ADRIENNE ELROD:
Look, I– I — I respectfully disagree. I mean, look. The Democratic Party as a brand certainly needs some work. And I think once we get past the midterms and we start focusing on the presidential campaign in 2027, 2028, we’ve got a number of amazing governors who are running, we’ve got some really strong candidates who are going to come forward, be front and center, and really have an open debate about the future of our country. And I think you will see the Democratic Party brand emerge and improve when that happens. But at the same time, look, when we’re looking at the — the numbers in the House, it seems almost impossible that Republicans would hold onto it. I mean, we are — they are only down a couple of seats, or we are — Democrats are only down a couple of seats right now. And with redistricting, sure, it’s a setback for us. But again on the issues, Kristen, we are going to win on them. We have been and we will win at the ballot box again in November.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Ryan, final 30 seconds, what are you going to be watching for on Tuesday night? Six states going to the polls.
RYAN NOBLES:
Listen, I’m not convinced that Tom Massie can’t win on Tuesday.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay.
RYAN NOBLES:
And I think there’s a possibility that he bucks the trend. But if he does, I don’t think we should over-analyze that. I think he’s a unique politician in a unique district. And it doesn’t necessarily mean that Donald Trump doesn’t still own the Republican Party.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, it is going to be an exciting night. That is for sure. Thank you all for joining us. Really appreciate it. And a quick and important programming note: please join me, along with Hallie Jackson and Steve Kornacki and Ryan Nobles as we break down the results of Tuesday’s primary elections on NBC News NOW starting at 6:30 Eastern. You don’t want to miss it, it’s going to be a very exciting night. That is all for today. Thank you so much for watching. We’ll be back next week because if it’s Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.
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