KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: Midterm matchups With just 72 days until the midterms, the battle for control of Congress is expanding. Republicans race to defend their majority while Democrats face a fight over how far left to go.
SEN. ASHLEY MOODY:
If the crazies get in office, they will drive this country off a cliff while laughing and telling us that America deserved it.
ANGIE NIXON:
Ashley Moody can call us whatever she wants. But in November she will call me senator.
KRISTEN WELKER:I’ll talk to the Republican in charge of defending the Senate majority. Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina and Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland. Plus: Untested? Lindsey Graham was one of Washington’s top national security voices. Now his sister wants to take his seat. But is she ready?
DARLINE GRAHAM:
I’m just going to be honest here. I’m not on national security. I’m not that informed on national security.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And: Dollars and sense? The national debt hits a staggering $40 trillion.
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
We’re going to have to grow our way out this.
KRISTEN WELKER:
As trade talks with Canada fall apart. How much more can Americans afford? Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Chief Capitol Hill Correspondent Ryan Nobles, Leigh Ann Caldwell, Chief Washington Correspondent for Puck, Republican Strategist Matt Gorman, and Ashley Etienne, former communications director to Vice President Harris. Welcome to Sunday. It’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press, with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. With just over 10 weeks to go until November’s midterm elections, Democrats are still fighting over the future of their party. Angie Nixon, a member of the Democratic Socialists, won a major primary victory in Florida. Florida remains solidly in the red column for now, but with just four seats needed to flip the Senate, the battlefield is starting to expand. And warning signs are flashing for Republicans. This week, the Cook Political Report moved Senate races in Texas and Iowa from “Lean Republican” to “Toss Up.” The man tasked with defending the GOP’s Senate majority is South Carolina Senator Tim Scott, head of the National Republican Senatorial Committee. Senator Scott joined President Trump in South Carolina Friday night at a rally to support Darline Graham, the sister of the late Senator Lindsey Graham who is in a primary runoff this Tuesday.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP:They say that Trump does great when he’s on the ballot, but when he’s not on the ballot, his people don’t come and they don’t vote for senators, congressmen, and other Republicans, and that these people — they’re running, they’re great. But if Trump isn’t actually on the ballot, so — what I really want you to do is pretend, please, that I’m on the ballot.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And joining me now is Republican Senator Tim Scott of South Carolina. Senator Scott, welcome back to Meet The Press.
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
Thank you, Kristen. Thanks for having me this morning. A good Sunday morning to you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Thank you so much for being here. Good Sunday morning to you. Let’s start right there in South Carolina. You were campaigning for Senator Darline Graham. As you know, she got a lot of attention this week during a debate when she was asked about a key national security issue. I want to play it, get your reaction on the other side. Take a look.
[BEGIN TAPE]
MODERATOR:
Are Taiwan and the South China Sea national security issues for the United States? And if so, why or how?
DARLINE GRAHAM:
I’m just going to be honest here. I’m not on national security that, I’m not that informed on national security, so. But I do support the military. My brother was in the Air Force for 33 years. So I will do everything I can to support the military. My dad was in the Army. I’m not a polished politician up here. I’m, national security is not my thing, not my area of expertise. But I do support the military.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator Scott, is Darline Graham qualified to be a U.S. senator?
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
Well, there’s no doubt, Kristen, Darline Graham is the real deal. One of the things I took away from Friday night’s rally with President Trump, President Trump did a fabulous job of making it personal. He talked about his amazing relationship with Lindsey Graham and how much time Lindsey Graham spent running around the world trying to make sure that Americans were safe here at home, but mostly abroad as well.
And then he pivoted to Darline Graham. And he said some really important things. I said earlier this year 2026 is the year of affordability. And President Trump nailed it when he said that Darline Graham understands the issues facing Americans today and South Carolinians today, the issues of affordability.
She goes to the grocery store. She understands the prices of eggs and meat and some of the challenges facing the American people. She focuses on helping people with disabilities for the last 30 years as her career. She is ready to take on the issues that everyday Americans are facing.
And Kristen, one other thing that’s really important. I watched her on the campaign trail. I watched her go through two funerals for her brother. And then I watched her carefully for 30 days in the Senate, casting deciding votes for the AG, working on getting her first bill passed, the Russia sanctions bill.
What did I assess? Highly qualified, incredibly competent, ready for prime time. She’s ready to tackle the issues of affordability for the American people. And she’s ready to serve the great state of South Carolina in the United States Senate. I ask every Republican in South Carolina, “Vote Darline Graham on Tuesday.”
KRISTEN WELKER:
But Senator Scott, should a U.S. senator have a basic understanding of national security issues?
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
Well, the answer is yes. And she does. The question we’re asking ourselves today is whether or not she is prepared to serve in the United States Senate and represent the people of South Carolina on the issues that are germane to the moment. What are the issues of the moment?
And is she prepared to hit those issues? She hits those issues spot-on. She hits the target bull’s eye. How did she do so? Because she’s been listening to people across our state for more than 30 years. She ran a state agency for seven years.
She understands the critical issues of affordability. Frankly, she’s actually gotten a vote on her bill passed through the Senate, signed into law, which is more than her opponent. So what we know without question is Darline Graham is ready to serve the United States of America starting here at home in South Carolina.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, how confident are you that Darline Graham can win on Tuesday?
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
Very confident. It’s one of the reasons why I waited, waited 30 days to make sure that I felt like she was ready. I can tell you as the senior senator for the great state of South Carolina, the person I want in the Senate with me, Darline Graham, representing the people of South Carolina.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, well, let’s--
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
Easy choice.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let’s talk about the broader state of play for the Senate. According to the Cook Political Report, six of the key battleground races have shifted out of Republicans’ favor since April. Texas and Iowa moved from “lean Republican” to “toss-up” just this week. As chair of the National Republican Senatorial Committee, why do you think that so many of these Republican leaning races have now moved to toss-ups?
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
Well, I am very confident that we will be in the majority at the end of November this year. Let me tell you why. We are facing the most dangerous, radical, and frankly, Kristen, weird Democrats I’ve seen in my lifetime. Let’s start in Texas. James Talarico believes that God is non-binary. He’s a person who’s so out of step with Texans that were leading a coalition building around our candidate, Paxton, Republicans and Democrats and Independents coming together to make sure that James Talarico never sees the Senate floor.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We’re going to talk--
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
Turn your attention to Michigan. Abdul El-Sayed, the same kind of dangerous, radical, weird candidate. They’re all over the country. We feel really good about where we are. And if you want to go back to Iowa, we have Ashley Hinson, a strong, powerful candidate running very strong in her state. And on the other side, we have Josh Turek, who has never seen a tax increase he didn’t like. We’re talking about someone willing to take resources out of the pockets of people working overtime.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right.
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
We’re talking about someone who believes that raising taxes will help people in Iowa meet their needs--
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let’s talk about some--
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
--and buy their groceries.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let’s talk--
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
Just out of step.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let’s talk about some of these states that you just raised. Let’s start in Texas. Democrat James Talarico, as you just said, facing off against Ken Paxton. Paxton has faced allegations of bribery, fraud, abuse of power. He was impeached by his own party. You endorsed Senator John Cornyn in the primary against Paxton. So why do you now believe Ken Paxton has the character to serve in the U.S. Senate?
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
Well, I can tell you this. What we know with great clarity is that James Talarico does not have the character to serve in the United States Senate, nor does he have the right issue, right position on the issues that Texans care most about. I’ll say it very clearly. And I’ll say it again. James Talarico is out of step, completely out of step with Texans.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But does Paxton--
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
We’re talking about someone--
KRISTEN WELKER:
--have the character to serve?
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
--who would raise the taxes--
KRISTEN WELKER:
He was impeached by his own party.
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
--who would raise the taxes. Kristen, at the end of the day, the contrast is clear and simple. James Talarico will not be the senator for Texas. And there are a host of reasons--
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right.
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
--from his position on the faith to his position on taxes to his position on boys playing against girls in sports. What we know with great certainty is that we will keep Texas red to the roots.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Let’s talk about another state that you raised, another big state, Michigan, the face-off between Democrat Abdul El-Sayed and former Congressman Mike Rogers. The NRSC continues to put out social media posts claiming that Abdul El-Sayed has, quote/unquote, “terrorist ties.” And yet, there is no evidence that he has terrorist ties, Senator. Should the NRSC stop running those ads?
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
Well, we know with, we know without question that he has family members who helped resource Osama bin Laden. We know without question that he campaigns with Piker who said at one point that America deserved 9/11.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let’s stay focused on--
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
We know that he--
KRISTEN WELKER:
--El-Sayed though.
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
--opposes--
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let’s stay focused on El-Sayed and what he--
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
Listen--
KRISTEN WELKER:
--has said and believes in.
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
Birds of a feather--
KRISTEN WELKER:
There’s no evidence--
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
--flock together. Bird of a feather flock together. You gotta, the company you keep does matter. We all know that. That’s something we learn in elementary school. Well let’s go to where he stands on the issues, though. There’s a reason why even former Biden administration folks are joining with Republicans and hosting fund-raisers throughout Michigan to support Mike Rogers.
Here’s one of the reasons why. We’ve got a candidate in Abdul El-Sayed who wants to abolish ICE. He wants to defund the police. Here’s a candidate so radical that even Democrats in Michigan are joining forces for the first time with Republicans to elect Mike Rogers.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just to be very clear. There is no evidence that El-Sayed supports any terrorist organization. I just want to read this. A Washington Post analysis online found that, quote, “Nearly one in three posts about Al-Sayed from right-wing figures mentioned Islam, Muslims, or Sharia.” Are Republicans trying to scare voters based on the fact that El-Sayed would be the first Muslim senator?
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
Not at all. What we’re more concerned about and only concerned about is the positions he has spoken about. He’s the one that said he was committed to Sharia law. No one else said that besides Abdul El-Sayed. He’s the one that said he wanted to eliminate much of the national security apparatus that protects America. At the same time, he campaigns with Piker who says America deserved 9/11.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And we should say--
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
When you add it all up--
KRISTEN WELKER:
--El-Sayed denounced that--
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
--you’ve got to believe--
KRISTEN WELKER:
--on this program. El-Sayed did denounce those comments on this program--
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
And he continues, and he continues to campaign with him anyways. You can’t denounce it with your words and do something different with your actions. We believe what you do, not just what you say.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. I do want to talk to you about a major issue that’s emerging in the midterms, AI data centers. President Trump has weighed in on this a number of times including on Wednesday. I want to play a little bit of what he had to say. Take a look.
PRESIDENT TRUMP:
If I were the mayor of a town or the governor of a state and I had a chance to get a big plant in, an AI plant or a data center, I would absolutely want it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do Republicans want to be the pro-data center party, Senator?
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
Well, we know that the Democrats, Governor Shapiro was for data centers as well. What we know without question, I wrote an op-ed, Kristen, about a month ago on the importance of data centers paying their own way, paying for their own electricity, paying for own water usage, and only going to communities that want them.
But we also know that Democrats are being used as pawns for this disinformation campaign run by China to make sure that China wins the AI future instead of America. We absolutely have to make sure that data centers only go to communities that want them and they pay their own way. And that is a critical issue that we need to make sure it remains front and center for the country to watch as it unfolds before our very eyes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, on that point, in Ohio the NRSC in a private memo called data centers, quote, “the anchor hanging around Republican Senator Jon Husted’s neck” because of his support and his history of supporting data centers. Do you believe that Senator Husted could lose Ohio because of his past support of data centers?
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
I don’t. I can tell you one thing about Ohioans. They are sick and tired of Sherrod Brown. That’s why they kicked him out of office just a few years, two years ago. And what we’ll see this time is the most radical, dangerous candidate in Ohio being Sherrod Brown who voted literally against cutting taxes for single mothers like the one that raised me.
Sherrod Brown is so inconsistent with Ohio that after 50 years in office, they finally said, “Enough is enough.” They’re not bringing him back. We’re excited about where we are in Ohio. And we will continue to move the map in the right direction for the rest of this cycle.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I have to ask you about the number one issue for voters. It is the economy. After trade talks fell apart with Canada, there are now 50% tariffs on $20 billion worth of Canadian products set to go into effect. Back in 2018, Senator, you said you’re concerned, quote, “that tariffs will amount to nothing more than a tax on South Carolina families.” Do you acknowledge that these new tariffs will cost Americans?
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
Well, I can tell you with, without question is President Trump is laser-focused on protecting American workers. Whether you’re a union worker in Detroit, Michigan, or you’re in a right-to-work state like South Carolina, the one thing we have in President Trump is a president who’s focused on protecting American jobs against unfair practices.
And how do we see that working out for us today? We see more Americans working today than in the history of America. And being home on Friday night with President Trump and Darline Graham, the one thing we talked about was the issue of affordability.
This is a really important issue. And that’s one of the reasons why we are so encouraged by President Trump creating more jobs in America. Kristen, listen, we’ve seen according to President Trump’s numbers, over $19 trillion of investment in America to build factories, to bring jobs home because he’s created headwinds for other countries.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But I’m talking about cost--
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
Good news for the American worker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, I’m talking about costs. And American families are also paying more in the wake of President Trump’s taxes and tariffs. In fact, Senator Susan Collins of Maine said this. “If the administration proceeds with these tariffs, they will increase costs for Maine families as most businesses will have no choice but to pass on the tariffs to their customers through higher prices.” Is she right, particularly given that we have seen that in the past, given the president’s tariffs?
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
Well, Kristen, you’re talking about a really important issue of cost. Let’s look back at the original sin of costs in America in the last eight years. It goes to Joe Biden who took inflation--
KRISTEN WELKER:
Wait--
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
--up 21%--
KRISTEN WELKER:
President Trump has been in office for two years.
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
--while he was president.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Hold on, Senator. President Trump has been in office for two years.
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
Let me finish. Let me finish. Let me finish. Let me finish. President Trump has brought inflation from a sky-high 21% over the Biden years down to under 5% and right now hovering near 4%.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Wait. Inflation was at 3% when--
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
It’s moving in the right direction.
KRISTEN WELKER:
--President Biden left office. It’s at 3.4% right now.
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
I’m sorry. Let’s see--
KRISTEN WELKER:
And the average household has paid $1,000--
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
Let’s not--
KRISTEN WELKER:
--more in 2025--
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
-forget--
KRISTEN WELKER:
--due to the tariffs, Senator.
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
Let’s not forget, let’s not forget the truth. The truth tells a great story. On the first piece of legislation in 2021, the Inflation Reduction Act that we should all laugh at took inflation to 9% in July of 2021. Accumulate the weight of inflation at the end of the Biden years, over $1,100 of lost spending power. President Trump inherited a weak economy and has built a resilient, strong economy with our wages going up and our costs flattening finally. Every single Democrat in the Senate--
KRISTEN WELKER:
But--
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
--voted. This is really important, Kristen, voted to take money out of the pockets of senior citizens last year, voted to stop helping people working overtime by letting them keep more of their money, voted--
KRISTEN WELKER:
But Senator--
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
-to take money, not out of the rich people, but out of the--
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator--
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
--working class waitresses--
KRISTEN WELKER:
But hold on, Senator--
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
--just last year, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, these are the facts. When President Trump took office, inflation was at 3%. It’s now at 3.4%. Gas prices are over $4 a gallon, up over $1 from a year ago. President Trump’s tariffs have cost American households nearly $2,000. He promised he was going to bring prices down on day one. Did he break that promise? Prices have gone up.
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
Well, the good news is you don’t disagree with the fact that Joe Biden brought 21% extra cost on the American family. We do agree--
KRISTEN WELKER:
But we’re not talking about Joe Biden, though--
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
--that President Trump has saved us over--
KRISTEN WELKER:
--Biden administration is over.
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
--more jobs.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We’re two years into the Trump administration--
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
It’s a contrast. It’s a contrast, Kristen. At the end of the day, the American people need to see the contrast. And the good news is they’re seeing the contrast.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But I’m asking you--
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
We’re seeing the most dangerous, radical, weird candidates coming out of the Senate from the Democrats. And we’re going to have a chance to let the American people tell us which party they prefer. I am betting not only on Republicans. I’m betting on us staying in the majority and even having a shot at increasing the majority.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Senator, President Trump himself says he owns this economy, is this now the Trump economy? He’s been in office for two years. We’re not talking about Joe Biden. We’re talking about President Trump. He’s the guy in office.
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
There’s no doubt. I want to make sure that the voters have the clear picture of more than just 18 months in office. The fact of the matter is that what proceeded the 18 months matters. And then the 18 months also matters. And that’s one of the reasons why when you look at President Trump making sure that working class Americans have more money--
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right.
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
--more of their own money to spend, that’s a good thing.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right.
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
Democrats voting against that, that’s a bad thing.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, Senator, again inflation was at 3% when President Trump took office. It’s at 3.4% now. Very quickly though before I let you go, you ran for president back--
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
Yes, ma’am.
KRISTEN WELKER:
--in 2024. Do you rule out another run in 2028?
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
I’m running for re-election in 2028. I am thankful that the great state of South Carolina has afforded me the opportunity to continue to serve in the United States Senate this far. And I certainly pray that they will allow me to do so--
KRISTEN WELKER:
But do--
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
--in 2028.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you rule out running for president though?
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
I have no intention on running for president in 2028. I have every intention of making sure that whoever wins the nominee gets the full support, not only of Republicans, but of some Democrats and Independents. It’s time to unite this country around the great opportunity party. And we have the issues and the positions that are consistent with the vast majority of the American people. It’s time to go sell our message.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, Senator Scott, please come back. Keep us posted between now and the midterms. We really appreciate your joining us. Thank you so much.
SEN. TIM SCOTT:
Thank you, Kristen. You have a great day.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You too. When we come back, Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:Welcome back. Joining me now is Democratic Senator Chris Van Hollen of Maryland. Senator Van Hollen, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:
Kristen, great to be with you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It’s great to have you here in person. Thank you so much. Let’s dive into the primaries. Angie Nixon, a member of the Democratic Socialists of America, scored an upset win in Florida, as you know, this week. It comes after progressive Abdul El-Sayed, who we were just talking about, narrowly won in Michigan. You of course used to run the Democratic Senate campaign arm. Do you believe Democrats are making an already tough Senate map more difficult by electing candidates who are part of the left wing?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:
No, I don’t. First of all, Democrats are absolutely united in recognizing that President Trump is a threat to our economy and a threat to our democracy. What you’re seeing is a churning, a debate within the Democratic Party, that’s more focused on what the Democratic Party needs to stand for in 2028. And I don’t think this is left versus right. I think this is the top 1% that is rigging the economy in their favor at the expense of everybody else. So these are economic populists. And the debate within the Democratic Party was going to be healthy going forward. In this midterm, it’s a referendum on Donald Trump. I listened to Senator Scott, he wanted to talk about Joe Biden; he did not want to talk about Trump. He talked about affordability. Let’s remind people that Donald Trump said that the affordability crisis was, quote, “a hoax,” and broke his promise to focus on bringing down prices and keep us out of wars. He’s done the opposite.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, let’s delve a little deeper into this debate that you referenced inside the Democratic Party. Florida Congressman Jared Moskowitz fended off a DSA-backed challenger in his district. And he’s taking a very different view of Democratic Socialists of America. Here’s what he said about DSA members likely to join Congress next year. He writes, quote, “They’re anti-American at their core. People who have said anti-American things, and have said things that are pro-Russia and pro-China. Should they really get a security clearance?” he asked. Do you think the Democratic Socialists have a place in the Democratic Party, Senator?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:
Yes, they do, as part of the debate. And in this upcoming election candidates can be very clear about where they strongly disagree with the DSA, which is probably on most issues. But they can also talk about their own plan. So you know, I’m not afraid to debate. I — I think that those in the Democratic Party who are afraid of a healthy debate are missing the point. Because voters, including Democratic voters, they don’t want to simply return to the pre-Trump status quo. They want Democrats who are going to stand for something. And I can strongly disagree with one set of Democrats, but I think that debate is healthy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, okay. Talking about the debate, let’s talk about the DSA platform. It calls for in part replacing the president and Supreme Court with an executive and judiciary chosen by and subordinate to Congress, and quote, “to abolish the Senate,” the chamber, of course, in which you serve. Do those ideas go too far for you?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:
Yes, of course they do, for me. And I think a lot of the folks who are running, regardless of where they are on the Democratic spectrum, have rejected those ideas. And so I think when you look at the Democratic Party right now, you’re looking at a party that, again, is incredibly united when it comes to making sure we’re out there, you know, standing up for working people. We need to end this war in Iran, which is driving up prices. And the reason that Senator Scott didn’t want to talk about this election and the issues and didn’t want to talk about Trump’s record, is because you have a rubber stamp Republican Senate, and rubber stamp Republican candidates who simply want to do Donald Trump’s bidding.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And very quickly, would you accept an endorsement by the DSA?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:
I would not. I’m — I’m not going to sort of look into all these endorsements. I’m not going to reject an endorsement by certain individuals at the DSA. But I’m certainly not seeking the endorsement from the DSA. But I think — I do think, Kristen, that this whole debate is an effort by Republicans, as you heard from Senator Scott, to try to reduce, you know, the turnout for Democrats. I don’t think it’s going to work, because at the end of the day what unites Democrats is economic populism, standing up for working people.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, one of the big issues that has emerged, I was talking about this with Senator Scott as well: data centers obviously a major issue. In battleground Ohio, Sherrod Brown has run a message clearly opposed to data centers. But obviously, artificial intelligence is big source of competition between the U.S. and China. Do you believe America can lead the world in AI if it’s not investing in, and if it opposes the infrastructure needed to build these AI centers?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:
So the issue with data centers has been where they’re located, whether you have environmental protections, how they’re fueled, and most of all, who’s going to be paying for them. So I’ve introduced legislation called Power for the People, to make it absolutely clear that rate payers, consumers, should not have to be footing the bill for the wealthiest corporations on the planet. And when it comes to data centers, they’re running away from it now, but most Republicans, they were socialists on this. In other words, they want to socialize the cost by making rate payers pay more, and privatize the gains for the wealthiest corporations on the planet. The American people don’t want that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Would you welcome data centers in Maryland?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:
I — I leave it up to the individual county and state with respect to the siting of a data center. However, no data center should be freeloading on my constituents in the form of higher electricity bills. And that is what’s happening. In the grid that Maryland’s part of, PJM, we spent $28 billion over the last two years subsidizing data centers. That’s insane. That is what Republicans ultimately want, despite what they say. Donald Trump has these sort of feel-good things at the White House. But he hasn’t supported the legislation that I’ve introduced.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, let me ask you about a new headline in The New York Times reporting that House Democratic Leader Hakeem Jeffries met privately with Jared Kushner and discussed potential areas of common ground. Do you see places where Democrats could work with this White House and find some common ground on some policy issues, Senator?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:
I wish I could say yes. I wish I could say yes when it comes to data centers, because Republicans talk out of both sides of their mouth on these issues. I think we need to be level with voters directly on things like data centers and not play games. So look, this — this has been a lawless Trump administration. They’ve been out of control. And Donald Trump has broken his essential first promises, which was to focus on lowering prices and keep — keeping us out of wars. He’s done the opposite. We’re in an illegal war in Iran and prices are going up. Broken promises, betrayal.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Given that, do you support the fact that Leader Jeffries met with Jared Kushner?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:
Look, I’m in favor of people meeting with whoever they want to discuss ideas. But it’s one thing to have a meeting. It’s another thing to see something real come out of that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. I do have to ask you about your own political future. You have faced growing calls to challenge Leader Chuck Schumer for Democratic Leader if your party were to retake the Senate. I know that that’s an “if” still. Those calls followed you even while you were campaigning with Abdul El-Sayed. I want to play a little clip and get your reaction on the other side.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:
We want someone who’s going to be there for working people in Michigan And of course to be a United States Senator, so for working people all over the country.
CROWD:
And a new Senate majority leader.
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:
(Laughs). And we need to make sure –
ABDUL EL-SAYED:
And if I have anything to do about it, the next Senate Majority Leader, Chris Van Hollen. (cheers)
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, well, there it is. Abdul El-Sayed endorsing you as the next majorityLeader if Democrats retake control of the Senate. Do you want the job?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:
I’ve been very clear that my focus is not on majority leader. It’s on what Democrats stand for going into 2028. Look, what happened in 2024 is that voters were so upset with the status quo that they — they voted for a convicted felon, Donald Trump. And my view is Democrats need to really stand for something. We need to be against the status quo. And that’s why I’ve been kicking the tires as I look at 2028, because I don’t think the Democratic Party has answered the call about how we’re going to make sure we have an economy that really does work for everybody, especially working people.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You’ve been kicking the tires on 2028, meaning you’re thinking about running for President in 2028?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:
I’m kicking the tires, meaning I’ve been to New Hampshire. I was invited to go there. I was invited to go out to Iowa last summer. I think there’s a great deal of churning within the Democratic Party, and I support that. As I said, I think we need this healthy debate. Because I don’t think Democrats have put forward a clear alternative to the Trump administration.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So bottom line, you’re mulling a potential run in 2028?
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:
Bottom line, I think Democrats need to be very clear not just what we’re against, but what we’re for. And I’m — very much want to be part of that debate, and I am kicking the tires, testing the waters.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Well, keep us posted. And please come back. Senator Chris Van Hollen, really appreciate your being here. Thank you so much.
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN:
Great to be with you, thanks.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And when we come back, the midterm map is expanding for Democrats. Are Texas and Iowa now in play? The panel is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here: NBC News chief Capitol Hill correspondent Ryan Nobles; Leigh Ann Caldwell, chief Washington correspondent for Puck; Republican strategist Matt Gorman, who served as senior advisor for Tim Scott’s 2024 presidential campaign; and Democratic strategist Ashley Etienne, former communications director for Vice President Kamala Harris and Speaker Pelosi. Welcome to all of you. Thank you all for being here. Ryan, let’s talk about the state of play. There’s so much to unpack here after the Cook Political Report moved Iowa and Texas from “lean Republican” to “toss-ups.” What does this mean? What are the implications? Could Texas actually be in play, the Senate seat there?
RYAN NOBLES:
Well, we always say it is at this stage, and then Democrats find a way to screw it up. But I do think that Democrats right now feel as confident as they ever have been during this cycle about their at least potential opportunity to win back the Senate. To be clear, they still need to basically put down a straight on the poker table in order to make this happen. They’ve got to win almost every competitive state in order to win back the majority just because of the way the Senate map lays itself out. But the results in Alaska during this last primary were as good as they could possibly be, with Mary Peltola. They have very encouraging signs in Iowa. Obviously the situation in Texas looks encouraging to them. It’s good for them right now, but there’s a lot of campaign that has to take place between Labor Day and Election Day. And Republicans haven’t even really begun to spend the huge amount of money that they have in their war chest to try and define these candidates in many of these states.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And they’ll undoubtedly unleash a lot of those resources into Texas. Now, Leigh Ann, let me turn to you. What does it say that Texas may be in play? Ryan talks about the fact that Democrats feel confident right now. Do they feel more confident than when Beto O’Rourke seemed to have a shot, for example?
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL:
Not necessarily. They know that Texas is going to be inherently difficult. But it is the reason why Republicans wanted John Cornyn and not Ken Paxton as their Republican nominee, the establishment anyway, because they knew Texas could be difficult this cycle. But it goes to show what this environment is. I was speaking to a Republican who works in House and Senate races last night, and he told me that with the Iran stalemate, with the tariff standoff with Canada, it’s a big sign that the economic environment is not going to change between now and Election Day. And that is exactly what the, what Republicans are going to have to run on. And so that’s why when you saw Tim Scott, he wasn’t talking about the, defending his Republican candidates like Ken Paxton or Mike Rogers in Michigan. He was focusing trying to demon — demonize the Democrats, because that is their path.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Matt, it’s a great point. I asked him repeatedly, “Does Ken Paxton have the character to serve?” Instead of responding directly to that, he did pivot, as Leigh Ann is saying. What does that tell you? What does that mean about resources are going to have to put into Texas?
MATT GORMAN:
They need to make a contrast. Look, first of all, when it comes to Iowa, I don’t put much stock in the Cook race ratings. Because back in 2020, they had Iowa Senate as a toss-up, Joni was massively outspent and she ended up winning by seven points. Texas will be bloody. It will be expensive. But it’s also necessary. I mean, there’s a ton — as Tim Scott was saying — on Talarico’s record, but they have to prosecute the case, and they need money to do that. In Ohio even, I think Jon Husted has a real fight on his hands there as well because it’s a special election. So it’s only for a two-year term. So Republicans in the state are kept up at night because people who wouldn’t necessarily vote for Sherrod Brown for a full six years may be a protest vote for two, and that’s what they’re worried about.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Ashley?
ASHLEY ETIENNE:
Listen, my home state of Texas, we feel incredibly encouraged for two reasons. One, the environment is perfect. First time ever we’ve had a Republican governor and Republican president in the state of Texas underwater. And then you’ve got a talented candidate in Talarico. But here’s the thing. He deserves a lot of credit for how he’s been flipping Latino voters. He went in early, invested early, broke with Democratic convention, and it’s working. But the challenge is: the only way you win the state of Texas as a Democrat is if you overperform with Black voters. I just came back from Houston last night, meeting with operatives on the ground and state elected officials. They are concerned that there’s mild enthusiasm among Black voters and that this $25 million that Talarico promised he was going to spend over a month ago has yet to start to flow. The investments aren’t there yet. And then you couple that with the fact that Elon Musk said he’s going to spend nearly $200 million on this, on these races, and Texas is a huge target for that. And you’ve got a problem with Black voters in Texas. You’ve got 34% of Black men voting for Donald Trump. So if you’re going to wait until Labor Day to start campaigning with Black voters, you’re playing to lose.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I was going to say: he doesn’t have much time to shore up Black voters. Ryan, I have to ask you about South Carolina. You’ve spent a lot of time there. You’re going back. You heard Senator Scott defend Darline Graham. I’m told it’s going to be close.
RYAN NOBLES:
It’s definitely going to be close. But I think what Darline Graham’s camp is hoping is that this last-minute visit by President Trump is enough to put her over the edge. You know, we talked to voters that were at this event on Friday night, and it was interesting to see these diehard Trump voters that were still uncertain about Darline Graham. There’s real questions about her experience. That was doubled down by her debate performance. She’s going to need a lot to get to the finish line here between now and Tuesday.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Matt, what does she need to do?
MATT GORMAN:
If Darlene wins, it will be because of President Trump’s rally, plain and simple. I mean, this is going to be close. And as much of a debacle the debate was for her, the rally was a success. You had Trump, and Tim Scott, and Governor McMaster all praising her. What I’m watching closely is turnout. Norman had the edge slightly, I believe, going into the debate. High turnout helps Darline. Those are her voters: older, low propensity, a little bit more female. Smaller turnout, especially if you have a cluster in the upstate, that’s good for Norman.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And there are real concerns about what the turnout’s going to look like. All right, guys. Great conversation. Stay with us. We’ve got a lot more of the panel. When we come back, America’s national debt, as we’ve been discussing, reaches $40 trillion. Why Washington can’t stop spending. Our Meet the Press Minute is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. This week, the national debt passed a staggering $40 trillion as President Trump and his administration dismissed concerns about the deficit, despite calls from fiscal conservatives to rein in federal spending. Back in 1960, then Senator Lyndon B. Johnson joined Meet the Press and was asked about the importance of balancing the federal budget.
[BEGIN TAPE]
NED BROOKS:
Senator, may I ask you this question? And do you think that the administration has been too budget conscious? Have you at no time criticized the administration for worrying too much about the budget, not enough about defense and other things?
SENATOR LYNDON B. JOHNSON:
No, I don’t criticize people for worrying about the budget. I think that we all got to be concerned with it. I think it’s very important that we take in more money than we spend. That’s always my position. That’s our platform now. We take the position, our platform, that we’re going to balance the budget. We’re going to operate with a balanced budget. And under no circumstances are we going to spend more money than we take in unless we have a calamity or some national emergency.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, the midterms are still ten weeks away. But the 2028 races is already taking shape. Who’s leading the pack? More with the panel next. Stay with us.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is still here. Leigh Ann, let me start with you because we’re getting — we should acknowledge, first of all, at the top of this conversation, it is very early. But there’s a lot of buzz and discussion about 2028. And you just heard Senator Van Hollen say he’s kicking the tires on 2028. We did get a new poll out of New Hampshire this week. It actually, and I think we can put it up, shows Pete Buttigieg leading the pack, followed by Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez. Look at this. Kamala Harris at 3%. She was, of course, the party’s nominee. What do you read from this poll? Again, acknowledging it’s still very early.
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL:
I don’t read a lot into this poll. But it does show that these are the people who have been in the Democratic zeitgeist of who these Democratic voters in New Hampshire have heard about or are thinking about. They’re in the news in this moment. That’s what it says. The bigger thing in this poll that is more striking to me, they — they mentioned over a dozen candidates; about 15 candidates. And most of the candidates, like Josh Shapiro, Cory Booker, who had run again, Kamala Harris, were in the low single digits. And so a lot of these candidates, it’s a sign that they all have a lot of work to do if they decide to get in the race.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Ashley, were you surprised to see the former Vice President at 3% in this poll? And do you think she winds up running?
ASHLEY ETIENNE:
I was surprised to see her at 3%. But I think it speaks exactly to what the Senator was saying here on set, which is that there is — Democratic voters are over and are tired of the status quo. And I think to some degree she actually does represent the status quo. There was a recent poll that showed that 64% of Democrats want a radical change within the party. That’s, again, what you heard from the Senator here, that the party is not giving voters an alternative to Donald Trump. They’re just anti-Trump, but they’re not presenting an alternative vision. And that’s why the DSA candidates are winning right now. Their formula is — they’re more aggressive, they’re anti-establishment, and they’re advancing a policy platform that’s speaking directly to the needs of the people. And that we’re not seeing that. And the people — the candidates that are polling the best right now are offering an alternative vision, and are speaking to the economic concerns of the voters.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, that could include a Senator Jon Ossoff, Ryan, who actually comes in third in that poll. He had a viral moment this week attacking President Trump. He’s had a very robust fundraising effort underway in Georgia. What do you make of a Jon Ossoff? Where does he fit into this broader picture?
RYAN NOBLES:
Well, the first thing Jon Ossoff has to do is win reelection, right?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yes, correct.
RYAN NOBLES:
Which he does seem on track to do, but a lot could happen between now and November. But let’s put Jon Ossoff aside and just talk about Georgia as maybe the most important state on the 2028 map for Democrats. When they win Georgia, it’s almost impossible for Republicans to overcome that. And here you have two statewide elected leaders in Georgia, in both Jon Ossoff, and let’s not forget about Raphael Warnock, who have won there, if Ossoff wins in the fall, two different times statewide. I think Democrats have to just look at this maybe from an analytical perspective. If you have two candidates who you know can win in a state like Georgia, shouldn’t the conversation begin there? Sometimes I think they look past the most obvious answer because they’re looking for the passion, the energy. But Jon Ossoff, the one thing that he does offer is that it seems as though voters kind of interpret for whatever their personal preference is, onto Jon Ossoff. If I’m progressive, he seems progressive. If I’m moderate –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Oh, interesting.
RYAN NOBLES:
– he seems moderate. It’s a very unique place for a politician to be. That’s where he is today. He may not be that way in a year from now, but that’s where he is today.
ASHLEY ETIENNE:
And the lesson out of Georgia is you have to invest in Black voters. Ossoff said it himself. You’ve got to invest early, you have to go where Black voters are. And Black voters have made the difference, and have flipped that state and made it purple.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well Matt, again, it’s still very early. But another poll, an Emerson College poll, actually showed Secretary of State Marco Rubio outperforming Vice President JD Vance. You and I spend a lot of time talking about who the Republican nominee might be. What do you make of the state of play right now? What are you hearing about that?
MATT GORMAN:
Yeah. Serious people will run. They ran in ‘24 against a former President. It doesn’t necessarily mean it’ll be close. ‘24 wasn’t particularly close at the end of the day. I think maybe Ted Cruz gets in, Rand Paul, maybe even a Josh Hawley.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Tim Scott didn’t seem like — he wasn’t kicking the tire.
MATT GORMAN:
No, certainly. There were no tires kicked. I will say, though, you know, look at this past week for JD Vance. He went to Middletown, Ohio, his home state and hometown, announced a $1 billion grant, and went across the street, and served beer and chili coneys. And he was able to dominate local media, announce a big investment, and reinforce his biography. But more importantly, he did it all within the confines of his current job description. Secretary of State can’t do that, Secretary of War can’t do that. So I think we underestimate a lot of the inherent structural advantages of just being a sitting Vice President in a Republican primary.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah, this –
RYAN NOBLES:
I think, too, Kristen, the other thing that we’re not taking into account is that, is there another Donald Trump out there that we aren’t even talking about yet? I mean, if it’s the one thing voters have demonstrated in this era of American politics is that they’re looking for something different. And we’re talking about all of these politicians that have run and won elected office over a certain period of time. Is there somebody from the entertainment world, somebody from the sports world, somebody from the podcast world that has drawn a degree of support, and has an audience that could use that as the platform of a presidential campaign?
KRISTEN WELKER:
It’s such a great point. Leigh Ann, is there a Democrat we’re not talking about right now who could be the emergent, you know, front-runner ultimately?
LEIGH ANN CALDWELL:
You know, we’ll see. There’s a lot of Democrats who are kicking the tires right now, including Chris Van Hollen, apparently, wanting to get his name on polls, wanting to be mentioned in some of these polls to see where — where he stands. But I think that to your point about someone new-- and that could be JD Vance’s biggest problem, his close association with Donald Trump. It could almost be, like, how Kamala Harris had a similar problem with — with President Joe Biden. And you know, it’s still early. A lot can happen. That’s why it’s so fun.
ASHLEY ETIENNE:
Yeah. I mean, if history holds true — the moment finds the person, the person doesn’t find the moment. So I think there’s likely going to be, on both sides, someone that we’re not thinking about right now. But secondly, I think if it’s a Democrat, they’re going to have to create distance from the Democratic Party and the Democratic establishment. That’s the only way you’re going to win this thing.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, guys. Well, just a fantastic conversation. Really appreciate it. A lot to think about, not just for the midterms, but 2028 as well. Appreciate you all being here. It was a great conversation. That is all for today. Thank you so much for watching. We’ll be back next week because if it’s Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.
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