KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: Left field. Democrats face off — progressives versus moderates in a high-stakes test of which vision can lead the party back to power.
ABDUL EL-SAYED:
This is about whether or not you deserve a politics of the people, by the people and for the people.
HALEY STEVENS:
I’ve been in Congress fighting these fights.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
The American people want to decide who the Democratic candidates will be, not the wealthy campaign donors.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I’ll talk to Independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. Plus: Senate showdown. Two Republican senators block Todd Blanche’s nomination for attorney general — demanding an end to President Trump’s IRS settlement fund.
SEN. JOHN CORNYN:
If they don’t come to terms with the resolution that Senator Tillis and I have requested, then I think he’s not going to be confirmed.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I’ll talk to Republican Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana. And: Common Ground. Our bipartisan conversation with Democratic Governor Wes Moore of Maryland and Republican Governor Kevin Stitt of Oklahoma on how to change the tone of our politics.
GOV. WES MOORE:
People want us to fight for them, and not necessarily always have to fight other people.
GOV. KEVIN STITT:
What I can tell Americans is that we agree on more than we disagree.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Chief White House Correspondent Garrett Haake, Amy Walter, editor-in-chief of The Cook Political Report, Ashley Etienne, former communications director to Vice President Harris, and Stephen Hayes, editor of The Dispatch. Welcome to Sunday. It’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press, with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. With just three months until the midterms, the country is on edge as the war with Iran reaches a pivotal moment and political battles rise here at home. Overnight, President Trump said he is cancelling strikes on Iran, saying Tehran and other Middle Eastern countries asked the United States to hold off because the parameters of a deal had been agreed to. The president said the U.S. was locked and loaded and ready to go against Iran but that he agreed to cancel attacks subject to being able to rapidly make a deal. Five months into the war, the conflict appears to be at a crossroads with diplomacy offering a possible off-ramp even as questions remain about whether it will hold. The president’s decision to call off strikes comes after he issues this warning on Friday
PRESIDENT TRUMP: We’ll be hitting them. We’ll be hitting them very hard, and at some point they’ll just say they can’t take it anymore
KRISTEN WELKER:
Meanwhile, President Trump is clashing with Republican Senators Thom Tillis and John Cornyn who are threatening to block Todd Blanche’s confirmation for attorney general unless they get assurances the president will drop his so-called anti-weaponization fund. With the committee vote for Blanche scheduled for Tuesday, President Trump now says he will keep Blanche as acting AG and push hard to get the anti-weaponization bill if the senators refuse to confirm him, it’s a reversal from what President Trump said just one day earlier.
REPORTER:
Just to be clear, do you agree with the acting attorney general that the anti-weaponization fund is dead and why not just put that in writing?
PRESIDENT TRUMP:
Well it is dead! But you know, I wish it weren’t to be honest with you. I think people were horribly treated, horribly abused.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And joining me now is Republican Senator John Kennedy of Louisiana. Senator Kennedy, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Thanks, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Thank you so much for being here. I do want to start with the breaking news overnight on Iran. President Trump, senator, has said that he anticipated the war would last a matter of weeks. We are now in the fifth month. President Trump posting overnight that he will halt planned attacks to allow for talks to move forward, suggesting a deal can be reached rapidly. Do you believe a deal can be reached rapidly, senator?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Well, I hope so. I’m always willing to give peace a chance. Respectfully, I would remind President Trump of three things. Number one, the only reason that Iran is coming to the table — if indeed, they are — is because Israel and the United States of America have torn them a new ashtray. Number two, no deal is just fine. Not preferred, not preferable but it’s fine. A bad deal isn’t. Number three, he has to remember that the Iranian government learned to lie before they learned to talk. And they’re more than mildly insane. Dealing with them is like dealing with Son of Sam or Charles Manson. Whatever he does, do not release the sanctions stopping their sale of oil, or remove the blockade until we see Iran take firm actions to open the strait. That’s my opinion.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, the final point you make in many ways leads me to my next question, senator. Which is that there was a deal effectively in place. A ceasefire, a memorandum of understanding. It all fell apart because of provocations by Iran. Why would this time be different?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Well, it may not be. But I think we have lost perspective a little bit on Iran. Do you know why Hezbollah and Hamas are degraded? Do you know why Iran is the furthest away it’s ever been from having a nuclear warhead? Do you know why Iran doesn’t have an Air Force or a Navy? Do you know why its weapon stockpile, and launchers and weapons production plants have been substantially degraded? It’s because Israel and America hit them so hard they coughed up bones. And I think that it has made the world measurably safer as a result. Now, the strait is a problem. That’s a big understatement. You don’t have to be a senior at Cal Tech to know we only have three choices: escalate, retreat and come home, or maintain the status quo. I would maintain the status quo as long as I could. Sanctions, blockade. I would bomb Pickaxe Mountain and try to reach any fissile material and centrifuges underneath. I don’t know whether the president should start a new bombing campaign again, because I don’t have the military intelligence. Now, that’s a problem too, because it’ll cause a lot of pain. It’ll cause energy prices to go up, and a lot of inflation for the American people. They’re all hellish choices. But for the moment I’d maintain the status quo.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, and let me ask you, because the U.S. is on alert right now after cyber attacks on water systems in at least seven states, senator. The FBI, the EPA are warning that hackers are trying to disrupt critical water infrastructure, and intelligence officials say they are looking into the possibility that Iran might be behind all of this. What should the U.S. response be if Iran is, in fact, attacking America’s drinking water supply?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Well, we’ve got cyber experts. Hit them back. Iran’s done this before. I’m not saying it’s not Iran, it could be North Korea. We do it to each other all the time. And I’m sorry it happened. I’m glad we caught it. But if Iran’s going to start this foolishness, I would uh, I would hit them back. You know, just like we’ve done with the military strikes, I’d eat them up and spit the bones on the floor.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, let me ask you about what’s happening on Capitol Hill, senator. Republican Senators Thom Tillis and John Cornyn, as I just discussed, are holding up the confirmation of acting Attorney General Todd Blanche over their demand that the Justice Department end President Trump’s $1.8 billion anti-weaponization fund. To remind people, that effectively would mean that it would give people the ability to get compensation if they believed they were wronged by the federal government. President Trump now says he wants Congress to pass a bill making the fund the law of the land. Would you support such a bill, senator?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Well, I’d have to read it first.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You’d be open to that though, senator?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Look, in a perfect world —
KRISTEN WELKER:
You’d be open to that?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Well, let me answer. In a perfect world, Senators Tillis and Cornyn, and President Trump and Mr. Blanche would sit down and work this out. I do believe that Senator Cornyn and Tillis are talking with the Department of Justice. I don’t know if they’ll reach a deal. Frankly, I think the odds are against it. I wouldn’t bet my house on it and if I were betting your house, it would just be a maybe. In terms of the weaponization fund, the president himself has conceded that it will take legislation. I’m glad he conceded that. We’ll get to shape the bill. We already have an anti-weaponization fund, a pool of money that you can access if you’re abused by government, through the Federal Tort Claims Act. But if he wants to improve it, I’m willing to look at it. But I’m not going to give him a blank check. In terms of the settlement —
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, well, let me ask you —
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Go ahead.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you, I mean, do you think anyone who attacked police officers, stormed the Capitol on January 6th should get taxpayer money as a part of that fund?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
No, I’d take them off the table.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. And you would put that into legislation, senator?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Yeah. I’m not saying that everybody — well, strike that. Look, it’s too emotional of an issue, and it’s too important of an issue. And if somebody thinks they were abused by the federal government when they were punished, by attacking the Capitol in a riot that got totally out of control, right now they have the right to file a Federal Tort Claims Act against the federal government, and a federal judge will decide. And I would take that issue completely off the table.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. Let me ask you about another big topic this week, senator. The Justice Department just this week dropped its charges against the Olympic canoeist that it accused of vandalizing the Reflecting Pool on the National Mall. The DOJ admitted that the damage was caused by, quote, “botched installation and not vandalism.” This was a case that the DOJ had said was open and shut. They said they could prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. Does this reversal undercut the public’s faith in the Justice Department, senator?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Well, the whole thing is a multiple vehicle pile-up. Let me start with the president. The president says it was caused by vandals. I don’t know whether he really believes that, or it’s part of his political messaging, or he’s just thinking out loud. You and I both know the president well. He exists loudly, and he grows anxious when he has an unexpressed thought. I’m not saying he doesn’t really believe it, I just don’t know. Now, the stakes are a lot higher for U.S. Attorney Pirro. You can’t lie to a federal judge. If she can’t prove her case, she was right to pull back. Because if you fool around with a federal judge, you will find out. When I was in private practice, one time I put my briefcase on a brand new conference table bought by a federal judge. And he got so mad, I’ll never forget, I thought I was going to get to spend overnight with Bubba in central lockup. Federal judges will not tolerate. And so I don’t know why she filed the suit without having a — doing a full investigation. She says she relied on the Department of Interior. But she was smart to pull it back.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Very quickly, senator. Given that — because I have one more question on the shutdown — should the grand jury records be released so the public can see the evidence for themselves, senator?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Fine with me. Let the whole world see.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Final question for you. Congress is facing another government shutdown, as you well know, just weeks before the midterms, senator, if Democrats and Republicans cannot reach an agreement. There are reports Leader Thune and Leader Schumer may be about to strike a deal, are working on some type of agreement. Will you support a deal — a bipartisan deal if it is reached, to avoid another government shutdown?
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
Well, I don’t know what the deal is yet. I’m only on the Appropriations Committee, but I’ve heard nothing. Now, it’s been reported that Senator Schumer, in return for keeping government open, wants Senator Thune to kill the budget resolution, and to take away President Trump’s authority to review government grants. I think to agree to that would be top of the heap, king of the hill, A number one stupid. Will I vote for it? The short answer is no. The long answer is hell no. And if that’s what we — Senator Thune puts on the floor, I’m not going to vote for it, and I don’t think most Republicans will, and I don’t think the House will. And we will have shot off yet one more of our toes, I would put — because we’ll be blamed for the shutdown. I would put a clean CR on the floor, with none of this foolishness in it. And if Senator Schumer wants to shut down government at the behest of the Graham Platner wing of his party he should knock himself out. I don’t think he’ll do it,
KRISTEN WELKER:
Alright
SEN. JOHN KENNEDY:
– but he might.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Alright. Senator John Kennedy, we covered a lot of ground this morning. Thank you so very much for being here. We really appreciate it.
SENATOR JOHN KENNEDY:
Yeah, we did.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Thank you. And when we come back, Senator Bernie Sanders joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back, and joining me now is Independent Senator Bernie Sanders of Vermont. Senator Sanders, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Good to be with you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It’s wonderful to have you back, particularly ahead of these big elections coming up on Tuesday. I do want to start, though, with the state of play for the Democratic Party. You really were one of the top people who brought democratic socialism into the mainstream, Senator. And a new poll finds that one third of Democratic-leaning voters now identify as democratic socialists. And we’ve seen, quite frankly, democratic socialists win in primaries throughout this election cycle so far. But are you confident that democratic socialists can win in general elections in purple states?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, I am, but I’m mostly confident that the American people know that our country today is moving in a very, very bad direction at a time when we have more income and wealth inequality than we’ve ever had in the history of America. What’s going on now makes the Gilded Age of Rockefeller look like an egalitarian utopia. What’s going on now is that millions of our people, right now, in the richest country on Earth, they’re struggling to put food on the table, pay for health care, pay for their rent, pay for their mortgage. You got half of all the workers who have nothing in savings as they face retirement. Or you’re facing seeing kids unable to afford to go to college in the richest country in the history of the world. So people all over America are looking around, they’re saying, “Hey, wait a minute. The very richest people are becoming richer. Elon Musk himself, one man, owns more wealth by far than the bottom half of American households. What in God’s name is going on?” And people look at the Republican leadership and Donald Trump, and they say, “You know, this guy’s worried about a Reflecting Pool. I can’t afford my retirement. He’s starting a war in Iran, costing us huge amounts of money, killing innocent people. 18 American servicemen are dead. What are they doing?” And then you look at the Democratic Party leadership, which also gets their money, like the Republicans, from very wealthy people, and people are saying, “Is the Democratic leadership representing ordinary Americans?” And I think people look at the Republicans, they say, “No, they’re out of touch,” look at the Democratic leadership, say, “No, they’re out of touch. We need a government, radical idea, that works for all people and not just for wealthy campaign contributors.” And that’s why, from New York City with Mamdani, and in Colorado, and in California, and in Montana, and I think you’re going to see it in Michigan, people are saying, “Enough is enough. You know, let’s get a government that represents all of us.” And I’ve got to tell you something, Kristen, that part of the exasperation that the American people are feeling, it’s not just an economy which is rigged. They’re looking at a corrupt — underlying corrupt campaign finance system. And what you’re seeing in Michigan right now is AIPAC, other billionaire-funded super PACs, putting tens and tens of millions of dollars against Abdul El-Sayed. In Minnesota against Peggy Flanagan, same thing. So we’ve got billionaires buying elections, government working for the billionaires, and ordinary people saying, “We want change.” And that is why progressives, democratic socialists, are doing so well all over this country. They’ve got an agenda that speaks to the needs of working families. They’re prepared to stand up to the oligarchs.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let’s talk about Michigan. You raised it. Your endorsed candidate, Dr. Abdul El-Sayed, is running against Congresswoman Haley Stevens. She is backed by much of the Democratic establishment that you’re talking about, Senator. How confident are you that he’s going to win on Tuesday? Can he pull out a victory?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Look he has taken on –I’ve never — you know, I’m not a political scientist. I cannot recall where a major candidate was outspent so much by super PACs. I mean, they’re spending tens and tens of millions of dollars against him. The polling recently looks good, but polls don’t win elections, people do. So I would hope that, in Michigan and later next week in Minnesota, people understand the importance of this election. What’s it about? It’s not just whether Abdul can win or not, beat Haley Stevens. The question is whether or not we live in a democratic society where a candidate fighting for working people can take on tens and tens of millions of dollars of AIPAC money, special interest money. And I hope very much that Abdul is — and I’ll tell you why, and a kind of selfish reason. Everybody in America understands that our current health care system is totally broken. We’re spending unbelievable amounts of money, twice as much per capita as the people of any other country. 85 million uninsured, underinsured. Prices way high. Dr. El-Sayed is somebody I need in the Senate as he fights for Medicare for All. He’s a doctor. He has seen the broken health care system. We need him to make sure that every man, woman, and child in this country has health care as a human right, as is the case in every other major country on Earth.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, and as you know, Senator, it is going to be very hard for Democrats to win back the Senate if they do not win the state of Michigan. This is Senator Gary Peters’ seat that we’re talking about. He’s backing Haley Stevens.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Yeah.
KRISTEN WELKER:
He argued that she’s the more electable candidate. Here’s what he said, Senator. “You have to have a candidate who understands that winning a general election doesn’t mean just turning out Democrats. You also have to appeal to a broader cross-section of your state, and Michigan is a true purple state.” What do you think Dr. El-Sayed will have to do in order to turn out moderates and independents to win a general election if he does win on Tuesday?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, I think Gary makes a — a good point. And the reason I think that Dr. El-Sayed will win in Michigan is that if you’re working-class Republican, you know what? You can’t afford health care. You know the system is broken. You are struggling to figure out how you’re going to retire with dignity. You understand that the current campaign finance system is broken. You understand that workers need decent wages, and El-Sayed is fighting for a livable minimum wage. And by the way, if you’re a Republican, you know maybe, we should be investing our money into Michigan, into Vermont, into America rather than giving the extremist government of Netanyahu and Israel tens of billions of dollars –
KRISTEN WELKER:
What –
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
– to continue their atrocities against the Palestinian people –
KRISTEN WELKER:
You take me to my next question –
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
I think if you’re a working-class — ok — if you’re a working class Republican in Michigan, I think you’re going to listen to what El-Sayed says. You’re gonna — and I think many of them will end up voting for him.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I want to –
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Independents as well, of course.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay, and I want to follow up on what you — you just said. Dr. El-Sayed has made Israel a central issue in his primary. He said he, quote, “often struggles with the question of whether Israel has the right to exist as a Jewish state.” In the past, Senator, you have been quite clear that you do support Israel as a Jewish state. Should Dr. El-Sayed speak with the same clarity?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Look, I think right now the immediate issue of the moment is whether or not we continue to put tens of billions of dollars into the extremist Netanyahu government, which has killed 75,000 Palestinians, mostly women and children, wounded 150,000, destroyed their infrastructure. And what the American people are saying overwhelmingly, Democrats, many independents — the majority of independents, and many Republicans, especially younger Republicans, “We’ve got better things to do with our money than to continue to fund the military of Israel.”
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. A number of more questions to get through with you. I do want to talk about Maine. Democrats have now replaced Graham Platner as the Senate Democratic nominee with former state senator Troy Jackson. Graham Platner’s candidacy of course, as you know, was derailed by a series of controversies, and when he dropped out, the party only had a matter of days to settle on a replacement. Are you confident that Troy Jackson has been fully vetted, Senator?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, I was not involved in that process at all. I mean, as you indicated, they had to move very, very quickly and I think the Maine Democratic Party did the best they could under difficult circumstances. All I can say is I have known Troy for a number of years. He is a fifth-generation logger. You want a working-class voice in Washington, D.C.? Troy is certainly that voice. I have seen his platform. It is a strong platform: standing up for working families, taking on the oligarchs, fighting for Medicare for All. Maine, like Vermont, is an older state. He understands that we have to make sure that we do not cut Social Security benefits, in fact expand Social Security benefits by demanding the wealthy starting to pay their fair share of taxes. So I have known Troy, and I look forward to working with him in the U.S. Senate.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Are you going to endorse him?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
If he asks me to, I certainly will.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. Let me ask you, because you were one of the earliest and frankly more influential supporters of Graham Platner’s campaign. This week, Democratic Senator — your colleague, Senator John Fetterman had this message for you. Take a listen, Senator.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SEN. JOHN FETTERMAN:
I would be frustrated with someone like Bernie Sanders. You know, why –why aren’t people angry why they promoted, you know, someone like Platner, an accused rapist? So really, Bernie, you have no regret endorsing and proud to stand with an accused rapist, a guy that roughs up his ex-girlfriends, a guy that had a Nazi tattoo on his chest?
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
What’s your response to Senator Fetterman?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, my response to Fetterman is last time I saw it, he was reflecting the views of about 19% of the Democrats in the state of Pennsylvania, I think probably lower than any other member of the Democratic Senate. Fetterman does his thing, I think on Israel and many other issues, is way out of touch with the people of America.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, let me ask you, because in the face of these growing scandals against Platner, emotional abuse, aggressive behavior, which he did deny, you did continue to support Graham Platner —
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
They were very serious allegations against Platner — against Platner. As a result of those accusations, I and virtually all of his supporters requested that he withdraw from the race, and he did. Very serious allegations, and he withdrew from the race.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You — you in fact said, “There are no saints in the United States Senate,” before those most serious allegations came out. Do you regret endorsing Graham Platner in the first place, Senator?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Well, you know, it’s easy to be a Monday morning quarterback. Platner ran a very strong campaign, and in fact, many of the issues that he’s raised are resonating all over this country. A woman made very serious allegations against him. He withdrew from the race, period.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And just to button this up, any regrets? Do you wish, if you could go back —
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
I’ll tell you, you know, I think right now we’re looking at a campaign in Michigan, we’re looking at a campaign in Minnesota. The people of this country right now are sick and tired of establishment politics and establishment policies. They want change and I and other progressives are going to do everything that we can to bring about those changes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let’s look forward. You have indicated, Senator, you’ve been asked that you do not plan to run for president again. That means, and I don’t know if you’ve looked at this, 2028 is going to be the first open Democratic primary without you running in it in nearly two decades, Senator. So let me ask you –
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
No, that’s —
KRISTEN WELKER:
— as you look to the future —
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
No I did not — yeah. I’m sorry. Go ahead.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Going back to — going back to 2016. Who do you hope will carry forward the progressive movement that you’ve championed?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Kristen there are — one of the untold secrets in Washington is in the U.S. House of Representatives, for example, you have many, many really strong progressives. Many of them are young. Many of them are women. Many of them are people of color. And we have elected many of them. And I think as a result of this election cycle, you’re going to see a lot more coming to Washington. I think as a nation, and by the way, with all due respect, the media spends too much time worrying about who’s going to be a president in two and a half years. Right now, we have enormous problems facing this country. We’re looking at heat waves all over the world. You’ve got climate change. We’re looking at the big tech oligarchs pushing AI and robotics down our throat. Congress is doing very little to protect working people in that. We’re looking at massive levels of income and wealth inequality, a corrupt campaign finance system. My suggestion is, as a country, as a Congress, as media, let’s focus on the important issues facing working people. Two and a half years from now is a long time to a presidential election. I’m sure it will unfold itself.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Senator Bernie Sanders, we will leave it on that note. Thank you so very much for being here, and we’ll watch what happens closely on Tuesday and beyond.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS:
Thank you very much.
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, Democrats face off over the party’s future with the big question: Who can win the primary without losing the general election? The panel is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here. NBC News Chief White House Correspondent, Garrett Haake; Amy Walter, Editor in Chief of The Cook Political Report; Ashley Etienne, former communications director for Vice President Harris and Speaker Pelosi; and Editor and CEO of The Dispatch, Stephen Hayes. Welcome to all of you. We are gearing up for a big week. Garrett, let me start with you, because Iran is looming over everything. 28% of Americans say they approve of the president’s handling of the war and it’s dragging down all of his approval ratings. Take us inside your conversations. How are they viewing this with less than 100 days until the midterms?
GARRETT HAAKE:
The White House understands that the sooner this conflict is over, the better for them politically. They would like to move on from this. And they really can’t figure out how to get there. You heard Senator Kennedy say he’s fine with there not being a deal. I think that’s the president’s view as — also, actually, based on my conversations and just from observing the president. They were ready at this time yesterday to escalate significantly, essentially go big to go home. They up the ante, asymmetric attacks, hit Iran very hard, and then deploy one of the president’s political superpowers which is to declare victory and change the subject. But the president was talked out of that yesterday, which kind of leaves us in the same position that we’ve been in for a very long time, trying to find somebody on the Iranian side to negotiate with to reach something that they can then walk away from.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. Fascinating reporting there, Garrett. Amy, Iran looms over everything on Tuesday and beyond. What are you going to be watching for on Tuesday, particularly as it relates to Michigan? You just heard —
AMY WALTER:
Yeah. That’s —
KRISTEN WELKER:
— Senator Sanders very full-throated defense that, yes, El-Sayed can, in fact, win in a general election.
AMY WALTER:
Yeah. This is what’s really fascinating about that race. The question, I think, looming over it all is whether Democratic primary voters are saying goodbye to the era of play it safe politics. And that has been — if you look at this race, what you have in Haley Stevens is a candidate who is electing. Her entire message is, “Elect me because I’m the most electable candidate in a purple state.” As you heard from Senator Sanders, his message and the message of El-Sayed is “it’s not just about Donald Trump anymore. It is a bigger picture fight that we are taking on. It is about the system itself.” What’s really fascinating, I think, is that in 2018, somebody like Haley Stevens and one of her biggest supporters, Governor Gretchen Whitmer, they were the stars of 2018. They were the examples of this is how you fight Trumpism. These are the ways you elect Democrats in purple states. Now here we are eight years later with Trump once again in office and the Democratic base saying, “That’s not enough anymore,” at least in these states.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Ashley, pick up on those points. And if El-Sayed does, in fact, win on Tuesday, how should Democrats respond? It does seem as though the ground is shifting in many ways.
ASHLEY ETIENNE:
Well, I think El-Sayed and the DSA movement is really serving as an existential threat to the party establishment. You know, CNN recently did a poll that found that the large majority of Democrats want a radical change within the party. You know, if you take a step back, the Republican Party has gone through three transformations in 20 years from the Tea Party to the Freedom Caucus to now the MAGA movement. With each one of those changes, they’ve tactically, strategically gotten stronger. They’ve won more races, expand their base. The party right now continues to refuse to do what Amy’s talking about, which is confronting what’s in front of it, which is your party, you know, brand is in the tank. You’re eroding support among your base. And you’ve got this insurgency that you cannot control. The party has to get real with itself and really make some changes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Steve, to that point, Republicans are saying, “Great.” If Dr. El-Sayed wins, they say they’re going to win in the general. But the point that is being made is could this be a Tea Party movement that Republicans run the risk of under-appreciating?
STEPHEN HAYES:
Yeah. I think it could be. I mean, I think if you listen to Bernie Sanders, he’s absolutely right to claim the momentum that he’s claiming. And this didn’t just happen overnight. I mean, this isn’t something that happened in the last couple weeks. Bernie Sanders won Michigan in 2016.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah.
STEPHEN HAYES:
You’ve seen the DSA and DSA kind of candidates making progress throughout the last decade. And right now, I think Ashley’s right. This is sort of a Tea Party moment. But there’s also a cautionary tale, too. Right? I mean, Republicans have built success. They’ve won offices. They have Congress. They have the White House right now. And look at what’s happening to the MAGA movement. Look at what’s happening with the popularity of the Republican Party right now. One of the reasons El-Sayed is even in the position to potentially win, I think, is because of — there’s such disgust with Donald Trump. His approval ratings are at 33% depending on your poll. And the MAGA movement is losing steam.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And the Republican Party is — we’re starting to see divides form, including over this anti-weaponization fund. You heard me talk about that with Senator Kennedy. Senator Tillis saying it could, in fact, become a yoke around the neck of Republicans in the midterms, Garrett.
GARRETT HAAKE:
Yeah. And by the way, I think these things are related in the sense that I don’t think either party has a clear picture of what they’re for right now. I mean, Democrats are united purely by being against Donald Trump. The Republican Party, such as it is, is holding on to Trumpism. But Trump’s not going to be on the ballot again here, which gives him the freedom to push for something like this weaponization fund. But other elected Republicans who do have to run for election despise it. You heard Senator Kennedy say it was not the kind of thing he would vote for, at least as it relates to January 6th defendants. Cornyn and Tillis, who also don’t have to run again, can be a heat shield here for other Republicans to try to bury this thing before it does any more damage to the party.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Very quickly, let’s go around. What do you hope to learn Tuesday night, Amy?
AMY WALTER:
Yes. Whether, indeed, we will see this shift now from Democratic voters on the age of being for a safe candidate versus one who’s going to shake things up.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. What are you going to be watching for? What do you hope to learn?
ASHLEY ETIENNE:
Yeah. I think one thing that people are missing is that we’ve seen seven Democratic incumbents that have lost this election cycle, which is a historic number. So for me, I’m going to be watching to see if this continues to be a trend, an anti-incumbency, anti-Democratic establishment votes on Tuesday.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Big night, Steve, Tuesday. What do you think –
STEPHEN HAYES:
Yeah. I mean, I think —
KRISTEN WELKER:
— you could learn about the Republican turnout?
STEPHEN HAYES:
Yeah. I mean, it’ll be interesting to see what Republicans do. You know, I’m skeptical that there are going to be a lot of Republicans who cross over and vote for El-Sayed, as Senator Sanders suggested. But there were a lot of Obama/Trump voters as well. So you can’t rule it out.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And, Amy, just very quickly. Republicans are dealing with headwinds as well.
AMY WALTER:
Oh. I mean, the reality is we’ve spent a lot of time talking about Democrats. But Democrats have the wind at their back. And I also think it’s going to be a lot harder for Republicans to attach random Democratic candidates to the DSA movement as easily as it’s going to be for Democrats to attach incumbent Republicans to an unpopular president who they’ve supported 100%.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, guys. Great conversation. We’ll be watching closely. Thank you so much. A quick programming note. Be sure to tune in to NBC News Now this Tuesday at 9:00 p.m. for full coverage of the primaries happening in Kansas, Michigan, Missouri, Virginia and Washington. I’ll be joined by Hallie Jackson and Steve Kornacki. And when we come back, finding common ground on the challenges of protecting kids from social media.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. This week, Meet the Press traveled to Oklahoma City for a series of bipartisan conversations as part of our Common Ground series at the National Governors Association summer meeting. Among the topics we discussed were the American dream, federalism, education, and social media. In one conversation, I asked Republican Governor Spencer Cox of Utah and Democratic Governor Jared Polis of Colorado whether they favor age-based bans on social media platforms.
[BEGIN TAPE]
GOV. SPENCER COX:
Yes. So I — I do favor them, and in lieu of those things happening, we passed some other laws as well that — that there should be age-based gating and kids accounts. They should be very different. We become way too overprotective in the real world and — and way too underprotective in — in the virtual world, and it’s causing — it’s causing serious harm. These companies who are destroying our kids, they knew about it from leaks we’ve seen. Meta, others especially knew what they were doing. They knew the harm they were causing, and they hid it from us, just like the tobacco companies did in the 50s and 60s, just like the opioid companies did in the 90s and the early 2000s, it’s the same playbook with these guys, and they’re going to sue and — and continue to harm our kids. All we’re saying is turn off the most addictive features. If we’re going to — if we’re going to allow that, you don’t need the — the — the endless scrolling. You don’t need the constant notifications that are keeping our kids up all night, and the algorithms to me are — are the worst part of all of this. Parents should have much more control over what their — their kids do and see on these platforms. We — we’ve got to get back to just a rational, common sense approach.
GOV. JARED POLIS:
So this is an area, you know, Spencer and I have some disagreements. I agree with the last piece he said. Parents should have more. I favor more parent-centric approach, family-centric approach than the government-centric approach because there’s different parenting styles. So a focus on that rather than the government saying how you should parent your kid.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Governor Cox. How big of a role? I mean, obviously parents play a huge role, but how do you see that balance?
GOV. SPENCER COX:
Yeah, no, no. Look, parenting is — is critical to all of this, and we have a collective action problem. And — and again, there are lots of things that we don’t let kids do. We don’t let them smoke, right? We don’t let them drink until a certain age. And what we know is that social media is having the same impacts, maybe worse, as — as some of those — those addictive drugs and addictive — so yeah, turn off all the addictive features and — and then let parents be able to parent. We’re talking about something that is much more insidious than this, and — and parents want to enable all those features and make that happen. But that’s not that’s not what — that’s not what –
GOV. JARED POLIS:
There’s one big difference. There’s no benefit to cigarettes and alcohol. There absolutely are benefits, no matter how you weigh them for social media participation. It’s not that it’s without its risks, but it also has its benefits to be able to reach out to communities across the country and across the world.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, more from our common ground conversation. Is there still room for dignity in politics?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. As part of our Common Ground conversations at this week’s National Governors Association Summer Meeting. I had the opportunity to sit down with NGA Chair Kevin Stitt, the Republican governor of Oklahoma, and incoming NGA Chair Wes Moore, the Democratic governor of Maryland. They were joined by Tim Shriver, the founding chair of the NGA’s new Center for Dignity in Politics. Shriver has pioneered what he calls the Dignity Index — an 8-point scale to measure politicians’ messages from contempt to dignity. All three engaged in a meaningful conversation about the role of dignity in politics today — and whether it can be a winning message for presidential candidates in 2028.
[BEGIN TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
How do you, as a governor, balance that: fighting for the issues that you care about while also making sure that you are instilling dignity, working towards that, and not pulling punches? How do you walk that line in this moment?
GOV. WES MOORE:
You know, I think it’s — it’s important to remember that people want fighters. And I know just, like, you know, I’m a soldier by background. But I think people want us to fight for them and not necessarily always have to fight other people. Like, people want to know that the people who we represent, that we will always be able to support and advocate for them, and make sure they’re getting everything that they need. But that doesn’t always mean that you have to be in an argumentative posture with everyone else. Because I think, at the end of the day, people just want you to be able to get things done. And, you know, I — I think about it where, you know, this is so unique, because as governors, this idea of dignity in politics in Washington D.C. almost feels like a choice. Do you want dignity or do you want politics?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Governor Stitt, how do you see dignity in our politics? In this moment, how do you walk that line?
GOV. KEVIN STITT:
Well, if I’ve learned anything as governor, and — and when I came here, got involved with the National Governors Association, what I can tell Americans is that we agree on more than we disagree. Some people in this room hate me because I have an R by my name. Some people hate him because he has a D by his name. And I know Wes Moore. I know his wife Dawn and his family, and he loves Maryland, and — and he’s an American trying to do what’s best for Maryland. And back to this Federalism idea, I think that’s why we all agree that this is an important conversation to have as Americans that Maryland is different than Oklahoma, and we’re all trying to move our country forward. And I think that’s something that people are craving to see.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Dr. Shriver, we do have to talk about your family. Sargent Shriver, your father, helped to create the Peace Corps, which is still thriving to this day. How do you see service fitting into this broader call that you have for restoring dignity in our politics? Is there still the same hunger and space for it?
TIMOTHY SHRIVER:
Well, I think there is hunger. But our political leaders need to step up. And that’s what I think Governor Moore is saying. It can’t just be words. That — those 18-year-olds, a lot of them are deeply discouraged about the country. They’re deeply saddened about their own futures. They’re deeply anxious about the institutions that surround them. The schools, the law enforcement, the political institutions. We are raising a generation of children who we have made discouraged, which is shocking. We have created the America that makes our young people discouraged about America. And that’s correctable. That’s — we can change that culture. And the men and women in this room have the power to change that culture. And these men are taking it seriously, in my view. And whether we agree or not is not the issue. Whether we commit to each other with the trust and confidence that we can build a better country when we treat each other with dignity, that’s at stake.
KRISTEN WELKER:But Governor Stitt, let me put this to you and get you to weigh in. Is it politically viable — is it a strategy that can win? Is dignity a strategy that can win? Do you think, for example, a Republican candidate running for president in 2028 could win using the dignity index?
GOV. KEVIN STITT:
I would think so. The problem with our political system today is –
TIMOTHY SHRIVER:
No, you’re supposed to say yes. Sorry, Governor.
GOV. KEVIN STITT:
I think the pendulum is — is swinging. Of course, you get to the general election, it wins. But the problem is, you got to get through the primaries.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Primaries.
GOV. KEVIN STITT:
And so sometimes, you know, the left, the danger to Moore is he’s going to get out-flanked on his left. The danger is to Stitt is he gets out-flanked on his right. And — but — but I do think it wins in the end. And I think that the pendulum is swinging back to a statesman, a — a Ronald Reagan, someone who believes in limited government, lower taxes. I’ll continue. I don’t think we sacrifice our principles of — of federalism and the things that we’ve talked about today, but as you can see, Governor Moore and I like each other and we’re buddies, and — and we can banter back and forth between what we think is the right thing to do. And — and what’s amazing to me is we agree on 90% of the stuff, because what are we really trying to do? We’re trying to improve education, infrastructure, access to healthcare. We’re trying to grow our economies. We’re trying to create the right workforce. These are all things that we can solve. When you’re in your corners, most people think that all Republicans hate immigrants, right? Most people think all Democrats want open borders. And that’s simply not true. When you get behind — when you get with — with us, there’s just maybe some small differences, but as a general rule, we are really trying to move our states forward. At least, that’s the — that’s what I’ve experienced. Now, I’ve never been in Congress so we can poo-poo on them all we want, but governors are where it’s at.
GOV. WES MOORE:
I think that the vast majority of the people in this country, they do not define themselves as a Democratic or Republican first.
TIMOTHY SHRIVER:
That’s right.
GOV. WES MOORE:
The vast majority of people don’t live like that. They’re just trying to make sure their family’s okay. They just try to make sure that they have a chance to pass something off to their children besides debt. They just want to make sure that if they happen to get sick that doesn’t have to be a catastrophic incident for three generations to come. You know, the vast majority of people do not look at the world that way. They just want to make sure that we’re providing fair opportunities and real pathways to work and wages and wealth. And so I just think that the people who want to center their time dividing us and center their time with the — with the hyperbolic, hyperpolitical, you know, mantras of the day, they will very quickly find themselves on an island by themselves. Because the people who just want to focus on getting things done for the people of our individual jurisdictions, I think you might lose the political scientists and the — and the political hacks. But you know who you’ll never lose? The people. And that’s how you win elections.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
A huge thank you to all of the governors we spoke with for these common ground panels. You can watch all four common ground conversations at MeetthePress.com. That’s all for today. Thanks for watching. We’ll be back next week because if it’s Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.
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