KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: Ambush. An Afghan national who served alongside U.S. forces in Afghanistan shoots two National Guard members near the White House. One has died. The other is fighting for his life.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
It was a crime against our entire nation. It was a crime against humanity.
ATTORNEY GENERAL PAM BONDI:
We will do everything in our power to seek the death penalty against that monster.
KRISTEN WELKER:
As President Trump vows to crack down on who enters the country.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
If they can't love our country, we don't want them.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I'll talk to Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem and Democratic Governor Tim Walz of Minnesota. Plus, chain reaction. The Pentagon says it will investigate Democratic Senator Mark Kelly for misconduct after he and fellow Democratic lawmakers encouraged U.S. military members to refuse illegal orders.
SEN. MARK KELLY:
Every oath every member of the military took is loyalty to the Constitution, not to a person.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I'll talk to Senator Kelly. And: case dismissed. The criminal cases against former FBI director James Comey and New York Attorney General Letitia James were thrown out after a judge ruled the prosecutor who brought the charges was unlawfully serving in her role.
JAMES COMEY:
I know that Donald Trump will probably come after me again, and my attitude is going to be the same. I'm innocent.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Joining me for insight and analysis are: Susan Glasser, staff writer for the New Yorker; former Democratic Congresswoman Val Demings; and Mike Dubke, former Trump White House communications director. Welcome to Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. President Trump is escalating his immigration crackdown, vowing to "permanently pause" migration from what he calls "third world countries." It comes after this week's ambush attack on two National Guard members just blocks away from the White House, leaving one dead and the other still fighting for his life. The troops, stationed in the nation’s capital as part of Mr. Trump’s federal military deployment. The shooting suspect worked alongside U.S. troops in Afghanistan then came to the United States after America's chaotic withdrawal in 2021. The suspect was granted asylum by the Trump administration in April of this year. President Trump is now ordering all green card holders from what his administration has deemed “countries of concern” to be re-examined.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
He went cuckoo. I mean, he went nuts. And that happens too, it happens too often with these people. You see him. But look, this is how they come in. This is how they're standing on top of each other. And that's an airplane. There was no vetting or anything. They came in unvetted, and we have a lot of others in this country. We're going to get them out, but they go cuckoo. Something happens to them.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And joining me now is Homeland Security Secretary Kristi Noem. Secretary Noem, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
Thank you, Kristen. I appreciate you inviting me on.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Thank you so much for being here at the conclusion of just a devastating week. I do want to start with the investigation into the attack on those two Guards members. What is the latest you can tell us about the attack, the suspect – Rahmanullah Lakanwal – and what you have learned about the motive, Madam Secretary?
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
Well, we know that this individual came into the country under Operation Allies Welcome, and during the Biden administration, and that disastrous withdrawal that we all watched unfold in 2021. He's been in this country and was in the Washington State area. We do know that we're talking to his contacts and going through information, continuing to gather that as we go forward. But we're going to use every tool at our disposable to bring him to justice and make him pay for what he has done not just to America, but how he's devastated these families and taken the lives – the life of one of our soldiers and devastatingly injured another one that we're still praying for each and every day. I just – my heart goes out to Andrew and Sarah's families. I can't imagine what they're going through. And President Trump is absolutely dedicated to making sure that he's bringing this individual to justice, and anyone that he would've talked to – anyone that he knows that would have known about this plan and this attack, he will absolutely bring in and there will be consequences, and they will pay.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. And our condolences to the family of the Guards member who did pass. I do want to go back to this question, Madam Secretary, do you know what the motive was at this point? Do you believe the suspect acted alone?
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
You know, we're still going through all of that information, and I’ll let the FBI and DOJ reveal new information. But I will say we believe he was radicalized since he's been here in this country. We do believe it was through connections in his home community and state, and we're going to continue to talk to those who interacted with him, who were his family members, who talk to them. So far we've had some participation. But anyone who has information on this needs to know that we will be coming after you, and we will bring you to justice. We absolutely will persecute you because we do know that we will never allow this to continue to happen in our country, allow individuals who came to our country – that were unvetted by Joe Biden – allowed to run free and loose. We are going to bring them to justice and make sure that they're returned out of this country if they aren't here for the purposes of being an American.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I want to follow up with you. I mean, you say something very notable. You say he was radicalized here. This suspect, we should note, was a member of the CIA-trained strike force, according to former intelligence and military officials, he would've undergone extensive vetting during his tenure there. And afterwards, it is worth noting that Citizenship and Immigration Services, an agency which is a part of DHS, approved the suspect's asylum application in April of this year. Why did the Trump administration grant the suspect asylum in April? Did you know then that he was moving toward radicalization?
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
Well, Kristen, you need to remember that when this abandonment of Afghanistan happened, the Biden administration put people on airplanes, brought them to the United States without vetting them. They brought them into our country and then said they would vet them afterwards. And then at that time, to do a good job of vetting people, you need to have cooperation of that government that is from their country. You have to have a stable government that will give you information, contacts, background information, and biometrics that you may need to identify that individual, their dates of service. All of that vetting information was collected by Joe Biden's administration, that was used in the process. So President Trump thankfully has completely changed that. We are now using all social media content. We're going after what they have been doing with their contacts, their biometric data information we are collecting. Now when we vet individuals under this administration, we know who they are, why they are here in going through that. Unfortunately, this individual, that entire process happened under Joe Biden's watch.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, but just to be very clear, I want to go back to what happened on the Trump administration's watch. He was extensively vetted in order to serve alongside U.S. service members as a part of the CIA-trained strike force. But in terms of what happened on the Trump administration's watch, just to be very clear, what vetting did the Trump administration do before giving this suspect asylum?
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
The vetting process, Kristen, happens when the person comes into the country. And Joe Biden completely did not vet any of these individuals, did not vet this individual. Waited until he got into the United States, and then that application for asylum was opened under the Joe Biden administration, when he was the president in the White House, and allowed that to go forward with the information that they provided. That's the Biden administration's responsibility. This is the consequences of the dangerous situation he put our country in when he allowed those people to infiltrate our country during that abandonment of Afghanistan. And that's why I'm so grateful we have a president now that isn't going to allow it to happen. That he now has put in place measures under his watch at the Department of Homeland Security that we are bringing in new information on vetting, new information to you such as what do they do on Facebook, what do they do on TikTok and other social media platforms? Who are they talking to? Who are their conversations with? And we use their biometric data information now, to track to make sure they are who they say they are and they're here for the right intentions.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And we are going to talk about some of the steps the president's taking. But I just want to be very clear about this because his asylum was approved in April of this year, on the Trump administration's watch. So just to be very clear, was there a vetting process in place to approve that asylum request?
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
Yeah, the vetting process all happened under Joe Biden's administration.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But was he vetted when he was granted asylum?
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
That is what is so broken --
KRISTEN WELKER:
Are you saying he wasn't vetted when he was granted asylum?
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
– is that they didn't. Vetting is happening when they come into the country, and that was completely abandoned under Joe Biden's administration. That's the – that’s the irresponsibility that has completely devastated our country, Kristen. Put us in such a dangerous position. I don't think people realize when Joe Biden was in the White House exactly how he was allowing our country to be infiltrated with people that we didn't know who they were. Some of them we did know were dangerous, and we went after as soon as they came into this country. But under this program, we could have up to 100,000 people that came in from Afghanistan that may be here to do us harm. And President Trump is absolutely dedicated to getting them out of our country.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. We have a lot more to get to. I want to talk about how the administration is responding. President Trump on Thursday promised to, quote, "permanently pause migration from all third-world countries." Is the administration ending all legal immigration into the United States?
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
The president is absolutely determined to stop all processes at this point in time from third-world countries until we can have a thorough opportunity to go through these individuals, know that they're here for the right intentions and that they even should be in our country to begin with. He's putting Americans first, their safety first. And these third-world countries don't have stable governments. They can't sustain them. They can't tell us who they are. And that's really the consequence of what we're seeing unfold with the violence on our streets is because these countries that people have been traveling to our shores from for so many years under the Biden administration, their governments didn't tell us who they were. We don't have a proper vetting process. So that's one of the things I'm so grateful for, is that President Trump has been bold enough to say, "You know what? We're going to stop. We're not going to allow this to continue until we have a process in place that ensures that it actually has integrity for people that will protect us and keep us safe."
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, the director of Citizenship and Immigration Services posted Friday that the agency, quote, "has halted all asylum decisions until we can ensure that every alien is vetted and screened to the maximum degree possible." For people fleeing violence and persecution, who were hoping for protection here in the United States, one of the hallmarks of this country, is the United States now closed to them officially?
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
They will be properly vetted. They will have new standards put in place, applied to them to ensure that they're here for that purpose. But yes, absolutely –
KRISTEN WELKER:
When will the asylum process start again?
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
Nobody's coming here until we're sure that they're going to be someone who truly deserves that program, deserves that opportunity. And under the last administration, that just wasn't happening. We had all kinds of people come in and use those programs for nefarious purposes. And it's going to stop.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay, when will the asylum process start again?
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
Well, it'll start when we know that we have dealt with the backlog that we have, Kristen. One of the things that nobody's talked about yet is that Joe Biden left us with a backlog of 1.5 million asylum cases. They allowed so many people to abuse that program that they didn't even process the paperwork. So people who maybe, as you would say, could've credibly claimed this, they weren't even getting processed for years and years because they were allowing it to be abused in such a way.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Will you –
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
That backlog needs to be cleared up. The individuals who are here in this country on that program need to be vetted under our standards that we're implementing under President Trump, to ensure that they even should be in our country. And if they're not, removed immediately.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Will you deport people with pending asylum claims, Madam Secretary?
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
We will if they should be, absolutely. Yes. We are going to go through every single person that has a pending asylum claim, has an asylum claim here in this country. You know, one of the requirements of asylum is that you have to come in every single year for a check-up and interview process, and a re-vetting. And that is something that we're going to expedite, and happen immediately with anyone who does have that asylum claim today and ensure that they deserve to still be in this country, that they still have the purposes for which they claimed that asylum in place. And that they're not here being radicalized and perpetuating dangerous criminal activity against our Americans.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. President Trump wrote on Thursday, quote, "Only reverse migration can fully cure this situation." On Friday, DHS posted, quote, "Remigration now." As you probably know, this term has been used in different situations, but including by the far right in Europe to call for the mass deportation of non-white immigrants. How specifically does the Trump administration define remigration?
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
Well, President Trump has been working towards cleaning up the mess that Joe Biden left us ever since he came into the White House.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But how do you define that word, Secretary Noem?
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
So as you know President Biden let 15 –
KRISTEN WELKER:
How do you define that word?
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
Well, first of all, we have criminal illegal aliens we've been targeting since day one. We have removed millions of people from this country already just in the few short months that President Trump has been president, by making sure we're going after criminal illegal aliens that are murderers, rapists and criminals, and getting them out of our country, bringing them to justice. And then encouraging people to go home. If you're here illegally and breaking our laws, you can leave now. And you may get the opportunity to come back someday. But if you wait until we detain you, we will deport you, and you'll never get the chance to come back to America and visit us or become a citizen. We're going to continue to do that, go after those criminals, go after those individuals that came in under programs that were broken on the Biden administration, and people who were in place in leadership in that crazy, crazy four years we lived through before President Trump came in. Thank God we have a president now that recognizes that letting all of these people into our country, that we don't know who they are, is dangerous. That we let in terrorists, we let in criminals, we let in mentally unstable people. They shouldn't be here. They're going to leave, and President Trump is going to ensure that Americans become first in the priority, and that they're going to be safe on their streets again.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Secretary Noem, let me turn to my final topic. In a filing in federal court this week, the Justice Department said that when the administration was ordered back in March to stop sending detained migrants to a mega prison in El Salvador, you personally made the final call to continue the flights anyway. Is that correct? Do you acknowledge that?
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
You know, we have court filings that are going on and decisions that are going forward. I'll let them continue to play through that process –
KRISTEN WELKER:
But did you make that call?
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
– but I'm proud of President Trump, and his leadership, and the decisions that we have made. And the decisions that are made on deportations, where flights go, and when they go are my decision at the Department of Homeland Security. And we will continue to do the right thing and ensure that dangerous criminals are removed.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So you're saying that it was your decision, it sounds like. The judge wanted to ensure that people were given due process. He said very clearly, "Any plane containing these folks that is going to take off or is in the air needs to be returned to the United States. But those people need to be returned to the United States. However that's accomplished, I leave to you. But this is something that you need to make sure is complied with immediately." Did you defy the court's order, Madam Secretary?
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
No, Kristen. And that's one of the things that we continue to face across this country, is activist judges who are using radical decisions that have no standing and no grounds, to try to stop what President Trump is doing to protect America and to keep us safe. So we'll continue to do the right thing, continue to work and protect Americans, no matter what radical judge comes out and tries to stop us. We'll do the right thing and know that we're on the side of the law, the side of the Constitution, and the side of the American people.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Secretary Noem, thank you so much for joining us. We really appreciate it.
SEC. KRISTI NOEM:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, Democratic Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. And joining me now is Democratic Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona. Senator Kelly, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. MARK KELLY:
Good to be on. Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's wonderful to have you back after a really significant week. And I do want to start with the National Guard shooting. You, of course, served in uniform. You know firsthand the impact, the devastation of gun violence. We just heard Secretary Noem defend President Trump's decision to, quote, "permanently pause migration from all third-world countries." What is your response to how President Trump is handling this?
SEN. MARK KELLY:
Well, let me start by saying what happened to the two guardsmen, Andrew Wolfe, Sarah Beckstrom, horrific. And it shouldn't happen. And I'm praying for him and for her family. It was a horrible, horrible thing. And there needs to be an investigation and accountability. But when I heard the secretary say that they're going to pause immigration from third-world countries, I mean, I take that as a message that they don't want brown people coming to the United States. And I find that disturbing. We are a country that has always welcomed individuals that are struggling, that are fleeing famine and violence. And it would be a fundamental change to the fabric of our nation to change that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Now, you say you think that they are targeting people from – who are brown. What do you think the administration means with this term “remigration?” You just heard me talk to the Homeland Security secretary about it, asked her to define it. How do you see that term?
SEN. MARK KELLY:
Well, that means just kicking people out, you know? They just want to deport individuals. I have folks that I've visited in ICE detention centers in Arizona. One has a deportation order. She came to the country 20 years ago, fleeing communist China. She's a business owner. She has 70 employees. Her mom's a U.S. citizen. Her child's a U.S. citizen. Her sister's a U.S. citizen. Husband's a U.S. citizen. And this administration wants to kick her out. She is a job creator. It doesn't help us to kick somebody like Kelly Yu from Phoenix out of the country. It's just ridiculous. And, you know, that's the strategy they're going to take. They're trying to, you know, round up people. She talked a lot about kicking out, you know, criminals? Kick criminals out. Kick gang members, drug dealers. We should deport them. But that's actually a small percentage of the people they are going after.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, let me ask you because you heard my back and forth with the Homeland Security secretary about the vetting process. The alleged shooter is said to have arrived here in the United States in 2021, during America's withdrawal from Afghanistan. President Trump blaming former President Biden, saying that that chaotic withdrawal led directly to this moment. Do you believe former President Biden's actions bear any responsibility of what happened?
SEN. MARK KELLY:
Well, this administration, they're going to blame Joe Biden on everything. I mean, it is almost getting comical, you know, at this point. It sounds like there was some vetting done in the last administration. It sounds like they did not do enough vetting before they gave him his asylum claim. She talked about changing the vetting process. I think that's a good idea. I mean, when you see an issue and a process that isn't quite working, especially after we go through an investigation on this individual, if there are things that need to be changed, we should change them. I used to have a boss, a commanding officer in the Navy, that would tell me that, "If you're not changing things, they're getting worse. Process improvement is important."
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about the other big story this week. You joined five other Democratic lawmakers in a video urging service members to disobey orders they believe are illegal. We're seeing some of that video play, Senator, right now. In response, the Pentagon has opened an investigation into military laws it says that you may have violated. The FBI is reportedly launching its own probe. Now, Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth has personally threatened to recall you to active duty so that you can be court-martialed. Secretary Hegseth adding your video, quote, "intentionally undercut good order and discipline." Did it?
SEN. MARK KELLY:
I said something very simple and noncontroversial, and Donald Trump said I should be hanged, executed, prosecuted. Pete Hegseth said I should be court-martialed. I mean, how ridiculous is this? We say, "Follow the law," and this is their response? These are not serious people. And, Kristen, this is meant to just intimidate us. We're sticking up for the Constitution here and the rule of law. And they're saying, "These folks should be executed for doing that." I mean, Pete Hegseth is not a serious person. He's unqualified for this job, should have never been put in this job. I, you know, did not vote for him. I think he is the least qualified secretary of defense in the history of our country, by far. And you can see this by how he has done this job over the last six months. And this president thinks he can bully and intimidate people. And he is not going to stop me from speaking out and holding him accountable for the things that he does that are wrong and unlawful.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you plan to cooperate with any investigation, including a potential court-martial?
SEN. MARK KELLY:
Well, just like – just like saying that we should be hanged, executed, that's about intimidation. Sending the FBI after us, that's further intimidation. I'll follow the law, but I'm not going to be intimidated. I'm not going to be bullied, especially by Donald Trump and Pete Hegseth.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about the substance of this video and your message in it. What specific orders do you believe President Trump made that you consider unlawful?
SEN. MARK KELLY:
Well, so this is looking forward. But let me give you a pass, an outline, of things that he has said. In 2016, he said that the U.S. military will follow his illegal orders. He was given – he said something on the debate stage and was reminded that would be illegal. And he said the military will not refuse his orders, regardless of whether they're legal or not. He also talked about shooting protesters in the legs. How un-American, how unconstitutional is that? Fortunately, there was a secretary of defense that has stopped this. He's also talked about sending troops into U.S. cities to use those cities and people for training. I mean this is – we're concerned, because of this president, with this secretary of defense, that we could have a significant problem. So this was a simple message: "Follow the law." And it was looking forward.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, and let me talk to you about some of what's happening right now, the Washington Post reporting that Secretary Hegseth gave an order to kill everybody on one of those suspected drug boats during the first strike in September. Are you calling for U.S. service members to actively disobey orders like those?
SEN. MARK KELLY:
Well, if orders are illegal, not only do they not have to follow them, they are legally required not to follow them.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Do you think that constitutes an illegal order?
SEN. MARK KELLY:
I think there needs to be an investigation. And I hope that the reporting is not accurate. I care, so much, about the United States Navy and those service members. And this was an operation involving the most professional members of the military, U.S. Navy SEALs, who I revere. I hope and pray that this is not true. But there needs to be an investigation by the inspector general. Pete Hegseth fired many of the inspectors general in DoD, but whoever is left needs to investigate it. We're going to investigate it. I sit on the Armed Services Committee. We're going to have an investigation. We're going to have a public hearing. We're going to put these folks under oath. And we're going to find out what happens – happened. And then, there needs to be accountability.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you. You referenced this. You were a pilot, yourself. You flew 39 combat missions over Iraq and Kuwait. You're asking officers in the field to make really tough calls about the legality of what they are being asked to do. So I want to put the question to you. If you were still in uniform, if you received an order to strike suspected drug boats overseas and kill everybody onboard, would you refuse that order in real time?
SEN. MARK KELLY:
Well, let me start by saying I've sunk two boats, two ships. I sunk an Osa II missile patrol boat in Kuwait Harbor. I sunk a Polnocny troop carrier in the Persian Gulf, during the first Gulf War. Never once did I question whether those orders were legal or illegal. People can tell the difference, should be able to tell the difference between something that is unlawful and something that is lawful. And if I was ever given an unlawful order, I would refuse – I would, you know, maybe, if you have the time, you can certainly go to the judge, advocate generals, the lawyers, and have a discussion about it. If you don't have time, you just say simply, "I'm not going to do that. That's against the law."
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, it puts a lot of burden on the troops to make a decision in real time, but it –
SEN. MARK KELLY:
It's a tremendous amount of burden on officers in the military. But that is their responsibility. And they can figure it out. You know, a reasonable person can tell something that is legal and something that is illegal.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So would you refuse these specific orders to strike drug boats, if you were still in uniform?
SEN. MARK KELLY:
Well, the difference between the initial strike and what is being reported, you know, as a second strike, and those things are different, I think this administration has tied themselves in knots, the explanations that we have received on how this is all legal. And I was saying, weeks ago, my concern is with the service members, that they’re going to – we're going to put these individuals in a really, really tough decision – tough place. And, you know, they may find out, you know, down the road, that they did something that is illegal. It is not fair to them. That's why we need presidents and secretary of defense who understand the Constitution, who understand the rule of law, and have more respect for the Constitution, and the country, and service members than the whims of a president.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Senator Mark Kelly, thank you so much for being here in person.
SEN. MARK KELLY:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We really appreciate it. When we come back, Democratic Governor Tim Walz of Minnesota joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. And joining me now is Democratic Governor Tim Walz of Minnesota. Governor Walz, welcome back to Meet the Press.
GOV. TIM WALZ:
Good to be with you, Kristen. Thanks for having me.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's great to have you. Thanks to you, so much, for being here. I do want to start with the tragedy shooting of the two National Guard service members and the aftermath of the shooting. As you know, President Trump has responded by vowing to crack down on refugees, including from countries beyond Afghanistan, specifically targeting the Somali community in your home state. He also described you using a slur widely regarded as derogatory towards people with intellectual disabilities. I want to read for you what he said, Governor, and get your reaction on the other side. He said, "Hundreds and thousands of refugees from Somalia are completely taking over the once great state of Minnesota. Somalian gangs are roving the streets, looking for prey, as our wonderful people stay locked in their apartments and houses, hoping against hope they'll be left alone. The seriously (blank) governor of Minnesota, Tim Walz, does neither, either through fear, incompetence, or both." What is your response to President Trump, Governor?
GOV. TIM WALZ:
Yeah. Well, first of all, let me express my condolences to the families of the National Guardsmen. They're out there doing their duty. They serve us. As a commander in chief of the National Guard and someone who served, we have a responsibility to put them in a position where they're protected and they have a clear mission. And so I would express my condolences there. Look, Donald Trump insulting me is a badge of honor for me. But I think we all know, both as an educator for a couple decades and as a parent, using that term is just so damaging. It's hurtful. We have fought three decades to get this out of our schools. Kids know better than to use it. But, look, this is what Donald Trump has done. He's normalized this type of hateful behavior and this type of language. And mainly, look, at first, I think it's just because he's not a good human being, but secondly to distract from his incompetency. We know we just came through a Thanksgiving where prices are up. We know people are concerned about heating their homes as we're experiencing blizzards out here. At the same time, he's cutting those programs. So, look, we cannot allow this to be normalized. Trump is, you know, like, "This is language police. You guys are woke." Many times, it's just about being decent to people and making them feel included. You can use that word, sure. You can use that language. But you shouldn't. And that's something that Donald Trump fails to realize. But again, Kristen, this is – this is cruelness. This is meanness. It's aimed at a broader community. And as far as demonizing our Somali community, maybe he could help us on some things. Demonizing an entire community, folks who are in the professions, educators, artists, doctors, lawyers, entrepreneurs, they bring the diversity and the energy to a place like Minnesota. And for him to just randomly decide to do this, it makes no sense. Do your job. Get the criminals out. Secure our border. But do it with dignity and respect to the American tradition of respecting immigrants as refugees as a beacon of hope.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, speaking of the Somali community, President Trump is targeting them and your state, in part. He's citing fraud as the reason for his crackdown. Dozens of people of East African descent have been charged, convicted and sentenced for stealing more than $1 billion in taxpayer money from government programs during Covid. As you know, Governor, that is more than Minnesota spends each year to run its Department of Corrections, so I want to give you a chance to respond to this. Do you take responsibility for failing to stop this fraud in your state?
GOV. TIM WALZ:
Well, certainly, I take responsibility for putting people in jail. Governors don't get to just talk theoretically. We have to solve problems. And I will note, it's not just Somalis. Minnesota is a generous state. Minnesota is a prosperous state, a well-run state. We're AAA-bond rated. But that attracts criminals. Those people are going to jail. We're doing everything we can. But to demonize an entire community on the actions of a few, it's lazy. And as you heard Senator Kelly say, this president has cut a lot of inspector generals. He's cut programs that could help us tackle this on. So we are. We'll take it on. We'll put folks in jail. I don't care what your nationality is. I don't care what your religion is, your color, if you're committing crimes. These are programs that were meant to serve students with autism, to housing, and to making sure people had enough to eat. There's a reason Minnesota ranks as the top – lowest childhood poverty, best place for children to live. People are taking advantage of that, they're going to prison. That is totally disconnected with demonizing an entire group of people who came here, fleeing civil war, and created a vibrant community that makes Minnesota and this country better. But that's Donald Trump: Deflect, demonize, come up with no solutions. He's not going to help fix anything on fraud. My god, there's a big difference between fraud and corruption. And corruption is something he knows about.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, Governor, let me have you weigh in on this because part of your initial response to President Trump's post was to call for him to release the results of his MRI. And I want to give you a chance to give our viewers exactly a sense of what you mean. What exactly were you suggesting by that, Governor?
GOV. TIM WALZ:
Well, here we got a guy on Thanksgiving, where we spent time with our families, we ate, we played Yahtzee, we cheered for football, or whatever. This guy is apparently in a room, ranting about everything else. This is not normal behavior. It is not healthy. And presidents, throughout time, have released a couple things. They've released their tax returns, not Donald Trump. And they've released their medical records, not Donald Trump. And look, the MRI is one thing. But I think what's most concerning about this is, as your viewers out there are listening, has anyone in the history of the world ever had an MRI assigned to them and have no idea what it was for, as he says? So, look, it's clear the president's fading physically. I think the mental capacity, again, ranting, you know, crazily at midnight on Thanksgiving about everything else, there are reasons for us to be concerned. This is a guy that randomly says the airspace over Venezuela is closed. He's ruminating on if you could win a nuclear war. Look, this is a serious position. It's the most powerful position in the world. And we have someone, at midnight, throwing around slurs that demonize our children. And at the time, he's not solving any of the problems. So I am deeply concerned that he is incapable of doing the job.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Governor, a couple more to get to here. I want to talk about the Democrats. You were, of course, the Democratic vice presidential nominee in 2024 because President Biden dropped out over concerns about his fitness for office. Vice President Harris, in her new book, said it was, quote, "recklessness," for former President Biden's allies to leave the decision about running for reelection up to him and his family. Do you agree with her? Was it recklessness?
GOV. TIM WALZ:
Look. I wasn't there, Kristen, on this. And I think the president, again, got us through Covid, ushered us through, brought the economy back from the edge. I think there's question about this. And I want to be very clear on me talking about the MRI: ageism is a real thing. Ableism is a real thing that we need to be careful of with people. And I think Donald Trump made a cottage industry out of attacking Joe Biden's competency. And it seemed like that got reported a lot. Now, whether that decision should have been made sooner, history will determine that. What I do know is, is that going forward, we need somebody in office who's actually going to tackle the things Americans need, whether it's about cost or whether it's about our national security needs and honoring those with our allies. And I think, maybe there's a lesson to be learned from what happened with President Biden. If that's the case, it should certainly be applied right now to this president who is putting Americans at risk, is reckless, and is not doing what he's asked to do: Make life better for the American people.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Let me turn to the future. Former Vice President Kamala Harris has left the door open to potentially run for office again. Do you still think she's the strongest person to run for president in 2028?
GOV. TIM WALZ:
Well, I'm glad she's out there. And I'm glad a whole lot of other people are out there because I think Donald Trump sucks up so much oxygen, we need to have the Democratic Party out on the field, the broad inclusive Democratic Party talking about making life more affordable, talking about protecting freedoms. And I think Kamala Harris does a wonderful job with that. If she chooses to run, that betters all of us. We will have the process we'll go through. I'm sure there will be a lot of folks who throw their, you know, hat into the ring. But that's good. And we need to make sure that we're providing the alternative that America is asking for. If they're going to elect us, we need to make sure healthcare costs come down. We need to make sure prices come down. We need to make sure that we're addressing the things that they care about, whether it's clean water or protecting the environment. Those are the things they want to see us get done. And I think she had a message last year that I'm proud of. I think – did it break through enough? Obviously not, but it's still a message that works, making sure that America is affordable for all, people feel included, and we tackle the toughest problems.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Governor Walz, thank you so much for being here. We really appreciate it.
GOV. TIM WALZ:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, why candidates keep running to the talk show couch before running for office. Our Meet the Press Minute is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. California Congressman Eric Swalwell's campaign for governor started not with a press conference, but with an announcement on Jimmy Kimmel's late-night talk show. He's not the first politician to look for a big moment on entertainment TV. Richard Nixon did a cameo on Laugh-In in 1968. Bill Clinton brought his saxophone and sunglasses to Arsenio Hall. And Independent candidate Ross Perot saved his 1992 presidential announcement for Larry King Live. The legendary host joined Meet the Press to explain why politicians kept turning to alternative media platforms.
[BEGIN TAPE]
LARRY KING:
In 1968 in Miami I interviewed Hubert Humphrey and Richard Nixon and George Wallace. They all were running for president. They came on, they took phone calls. Jimmy Carter ran in Iowa. He won by going on talk shows through Iowa. No one knew him. He went on talk shows. So talk shows is a staple in America. What's happened now is 68% of America has access to 50 channels. So we have CNN and CSPAN and we have news networks and local news networks. And there's daytime talk and nighttime talk and Nightlines. And this gives the opportunity for the public to see more of someone. Meet the Press is now an hour. Why? The TODAY Show takes phone calls. Why? Because the public has more access, gets used to it, to meeting candidates. So why wouldn't a candidate who has something to say, with good thoughts, and approaches well with the public, why shouldn't he or she use all venues? And if one of those venues is an hour talk show that's on in 151 countries, and has some spice, why wouldn't you use it? I would use it if I were running.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, President Trump pushes for reverse migration. How far will he go with his crackdown? The panel is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. The panel is here. Susan Glasser, staff writer for The New Yorker; former Democratic Congresswoman Val Demings of Florida; and Mike Dubke, former Trump White House Communications Director. Welcome to you all. Hope you all had a great Thanksgiving and you're not too stuffed for our conversation. Susan, let me start with you, and just have you set the table here. Because we are seeing President Trump really ramp up his crackdown on who can come into the country and who can stay in the country. You heard Secretary Noem say that it's possible they may deport people with pending asylum claims. Where do you see this going?
SUSAN GLASSER:
Yeah, you know, I was really struck. Of course this is all, remember, a response to a terrible tragedy that happened here in Washington on the eve of the holiday. And you know, absolutely a terrible tragedy. You know, not political in any way. And yet, what we're seeing I think from the administration is an effort to sort of take that tragedy, and now impose what, you know, you might even call a form of collective punishment. The idea that Donald Trump over this holiday weekend is saying, "We're going to pause all asylum decisions, all people coming in from," quote, "third-world countries."
I don't even know what that means. You know, but it seems to be a response, again, to this tragic killing. You know, so on the one hand, we're still learning about the facts of this case – you spoke about that with the Secretary of Homeland Security. But then you have, you know, what appears to be a list of policies, and sort of a wish list, part of the immigration crackdown that I see – the administration sort of moving to make as part of the same news cycle about this tragedy of these West Virginia National Guard officials.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yeah. Mike, pick up on that point. Because Susan speaks about this idea of collective punishment, that suddenly all Afghan nationals would be punished for the horrific actions of this one person. What are the conversations you are having inside the Republican Party about what is unfolding right now? Is there a concern that some of these actions could be going too far, and could backfire, quite frankly?
MICHAEL DUBKE:
I think there's a concern, especially among those individuals that either served in the military in Afghanistan, and really recognize that now we're painting with a broad brush. These individuals that were helpful to American troops, you know, we can't turn our backs on them. So I think that conversation's happening. But the bigger conversation here really, and I call it this 90, 30 and 3 problem that the president has. He's got 90% of Republicans that are still with him on immigration, the economy, almost every issue. There has been no cracks. 30% of Independents and three percent of Democrats -- that 30% of Independents is really the number he's got to focus on. But right now with immigration they feel comfortable with the base being with them to double down on the issue that they think is the best one for the administration to run on.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Former Congresswoman Demings, you are a former Orlando police chief. You obviously have served in Congress. How do you see this, particularly as Mike lays out those different factions, and the fact that the base is still with President Trump on this?
FMR. REP. VAL DEMINGS:
Well, let me say this. In both of those jobs I took an oath to the Constitution. President Trump and Secretary Noem did as well. What happened to the National Guard members was a tragedy. Let's get to the bottom of it and find out how this happened so we can prevent it from happening again. But even in the light of this tragedy, the president has to follow the immigration laws that are on the books. He cannot just decide to make up laws as he goes along. That's Congress' job. I'm glad to see Congress is back at work and there. Let Congress do the work that they need to do. If changes need to be made, bring Congress into the table and let them help you make those changes.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We are seeing, Susan, oversight for the first time. It seems as though poised to be oversight on a separate issue, which is the killings of these suspected drug boat traffickers. And it comes into this revelation that Secretary Hegseth basically gave a spoken order to kill everyone on one of these boats in September. You heard Senator Kelly respond to that, and basically say, "I hope that reporting is not true." But is this an inflection point where you're starting to see Congress have oversight, as one of the themes of this is the president testing the limits of his authority?
SUSAN GLASSER:
Oh my goodness, Kristen. You know, I have to say, first of all, that phrase, "expecting to have oversight." You know, nine months into the Trump administration, and one of, I think, the signature things we've all observed about our politics not functioning in a way that we expect is Congress – Republican-led in both the House and the Senate – essentially giving Donald Trump, assigning over Congress' power to the executive branch. And so you know, I would say to certain Democrats, especially since those election results have said, "Oh, maybe we're detecting some cracks in the system," Congress has not yet asserted its role and its function. I do think it's notable that you have both the House and the Senate Armed Services Committee, that's the Republican chairs and the Democrats, saying they want to have hearings on this, that they want to have oversight and an investigation into what occurred. I think what I've heard from many national security veterans – I don't even know what their party is – real alarm about what has been unfolding in the Caribbean. This massive military build-up. President Trump has just declared over the weekend that Venezuelan airspace is closed. And yet, you have a real question here: Is it legal? On what basis are these strikes being carried out? You've had law professors and others come out and say it's not legal, even putting aside the question of whether two people who were no longer fighting were killed.
KRISTEN WELKER:
This is one of the themes, questions about how the president's using his executive authority. He called for his political enemies, James Comey and Letitia James, to be prosecuted. Those cases were dropped against them. The administration's going to appeal. But again, it sits into this broader question about whether there are checks on his power. It seems like the courts are the front lines.
FMR. REP. VAL DEMINGS:
You know, the president as the executive branch can only do what he's doing, good or bad, with Congress and the courts not doing what they're supposed to do. We have a checks and balances system. And just to listen to what you talked about, about killing everyone, and then Secretary Hegseth wonders why six members of Congress felt the need to put out a video reminding service members that they cannot, or should not, follow illegal orders.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Mike, ten seconds left.
MICHAEL DUBKE:
We have checks and balances in the system. I think the president is going to move as far as he can as we see with – and as far as this administration will go. We should expect that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, Mike. Thank you. Thank you all for joining us. And thank you for watching. We'll be back next week. Because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.
