KRISTEN WELKER:
This Sunday: face time. New York City's mayor-elect, the 34-year-old democratic socialist, comes to Washington and meets with President Trump in the Oval Office.
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
Some of his ideas really are the same ideas that I have.
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI:
We focused on affordability. We focused on the cost of living crisis.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I'll speak exclusively with Mayor-elect Zohran Mamdani. Plus: political pressure.
REP. MIKE FLOOD:
The yeas are 427. The nays are one.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Congress overwhelmingly votes to release the Epstein files as concerns grow over the economy, and the White House rolls back tariffs on dozens of food products.
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
The thing that I’d ask for the American people is a little bit of patience.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I'll talk to Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent. And: unlawful orders? President Trump lashes out at Democratic lawmakers calling on them to be arrested after they encouraged U.S. service members to refuse illegal orders.
SEN. MARK KELLY: Our laws are clear. You can refuse illegal orders.
SEN. ELISSA SLOTKIN:
You can refuse illegal orders.
KAROLINE LEAVITT:
Every single order that is given to this United States military by this commander in chief and through this chain of command through the secretary of war is lawful.
SEN. CHRIS MURPHY:
This is perhaps the most reckless irresponsible thing that he has done all Congress.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Are the escalating attacks putting members of Congress at risk? I'll talk to Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota. Joining me for insight and analysis are: NBC News Senior Washington Correspondent Hallie Jackson, Jonathan Martin of Politico, Republican strategist Sara Fagen and former Homeland Security Secretary Jeh Johnson. Welcome to Sunday, it’s Meet the Press.
ANNOUNCER:
From NBC News in Washington, the longest-running show in television history, this is Meet the Press with Kristen Welker.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Good Sunday morning. After months of trading barbs throughout the New York City mayoral campaign, President Donald Trump and Mayor-elect Zohran Mamdani finally met face-to-face in the Oval Office this week. In a stunning turnaround, Mr. Trump, a native New Yorker, emphasizing what he has in common with the 34-year-old democratic socialist.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES. DONALD TRUMP: You know, we had some interesting conversation and some of his ideas really are the same ideas that I have. I feel very confident that he can do a very good job. I think – I think he's going to be – I think he is going to surprise some conservative people, actually.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
My exclusive interview with Mayor-elect Mamdani is coming up in just a moment. It all comes amid a renewed focus on affordability nationwide, with the Trump administration rolling back tariffs on over 200 food products and defending their economic policies.
[BEGIN TAPE]
PRES. DONALD TRUMP:
We're also making incredible strides to make America affordable again. That's a new word that they're using. Affordability.
VICE PRES. JD VANCE:
Even though we’ve made incredible progress, we understand that there’s a lot more work to do, and the thing that I’d ask for the American people is a little bit of patience.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And joining me now is Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent. Secretary Bessent, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Kristen, good to be with you today.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It's great to have you here in person. Thank you for being here. I want to start right there on the discussion of affordability. You just heard Vice President JD Vance ask people to have, quote, “a little bit of patience” with the administration. Let me ask you, Mr. Secretary, how long do Americans need to be patient? How long do they have to wait for the cost of living to come down?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Well, Kristen, in March of 2024, I – I wrote a piece, and I talked about the three I's that were killing Americans: immigration, interest rates and inflation. The president’s closed the border, and the mass immigration is gone. And that was putting – a lot of the immigration was putting upward pressure on housing, downward pressure on wages. Interest rates are down. And now we are starting to see the affordability – we – the prices get better. We had a very big October for home sales. Energy prices, gas – gasoline is down. We saw – we believe health care is going to come down. We will see an announcement this coming week on that. And so across the board, prices are starting to come down. We're having Thanksgiving week. This will be the lowest cost for a Thanksgiving dinner in four years. Turkey prices are down 16%.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And yet some prices are going up of course. We have seen prices increasing on staples like coffee, bananas, bacon. Inflation has gone up. It's at 3% now up from 2% in April when the tariffs were imposed.
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
No, no, no, no, no. They weren't. So inflation hasn't gone up. And Kristen, the one thing that we're not going to do is do what the Biden administration did and tell the American people they don't know how they feel. They are traumatized and – over the Biden inflation. We have slowed inflation. And we are working very hard to bring it down. Kristen, I can tell you that the Council of Economic Advisers has a study. You know the best way to bring your inflation rate down? Move from a blue state to a red state. Blue state inflation is half a percent higher. And that is because they don't deregulate. They keep prices up. Energy is higher.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just according to the consumer prices, inflation was at 2.3% back in April, in September 3%. But let me ask you about tariffs. Because there's this big announcement on tariffs. Since you were last on this program, the administration announced it was rolling back tariffs on more than 200 food products. You have said recently that you think tariffs help consumers. If tariffs help consumers, why is the administration rolling them back?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Well, first – first of all, Kristen, if you look at the data, that imported goods, the inflation has actually been flat. Inflation is up because of the service economy and services. So that has nothing to do with tariffs. And many of the food items where the inflation is coming down, the US – USTR has been working very hard on trade deals. And the trade deals that have been in the works for six or eight months coincide with many Latin American, Central American countries, where the foodstuffs you just named come from.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, and banana prices are up almost 7%, coffee prices up nearly 19%. Isn't the fact that you're rolling back tariffs an admission that ultimately they do drive up prices for consumers?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Kristen, how much does your arm weigh?
KRISTEN WELKER:
That I do not know.
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Exactly. But you know how much you weigh, and you get on the scale every morning. Inflation is a composite number. And we look at everything. So we are trying – we try to push down the things we can control. And as I said that we are working on – the energy prices are down. And everything flows from that. And I think we're going to see these other prices come down. And again, many of these goods were part of trade deals with countries that have been in the works for months.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Very quickly, come down in a matter of weeks, months?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Sorry?
KRISTEN WELKER:
Weeks or months? You said prices will come in weeks or months?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Some are going to come down in weeks. Some are going to come down in months. We just had – in terms of affordability, we just had the best month in the housing market due to affordability, due to increased supply in October, best October in three years, best month since February.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you big picture, Mr. Secretary. You said earlier this month, I'm going to quote you, quote, "I think there are sectors of the economy that are in a recession." Kevin Hassett, director of the National Economic Council, said, quote, "We're starting to see pockets of the economy that look like they might be in a recession." Which parts of the economy do you believe have dipped into a recession?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Well, clearly, housing has been struggling. And the – so interest rate sensitive sectors have been in a recession. And, you know, the other thing that was not helpful, Kristen, was the longest government shutdown in history. It was 1.5% hit to the GDP, 9,500 flights cancelled. And, you know, the Democrats didn't care that they hurt the American economy and anything to stop Donald Trump.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, big picture, is the country at risk – the entire country at risk of being in a recession?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
No. I am very confident about 2026. Because what we are going to see is the – the president's done peace deals, tax deals, and trade deals, the One Big Beautiful Bill. And, you know, to go back to affordability, affordability has two components. So it's price of goods and real incomes. So under the One Big Beautiful Bill, especially for working Americans, no tax on tips, no tax on overtime, no tax on Social Security. Auto deductibility – auto deductibility on loans for American cars, that's all kicking in. Americans have not changed their withholdings. So we are going to see substantial – substantial refunds to working families in the first quarter of 2026. Americans will change their withholding. And they will get an increase in real income. The trade deals that we've done, I was just at home town, Charleston, South Carolina. Boeing is expanding their Dreamliner plant, 1,000 new jobs. And I think we're going to see these plant openings every week. I am very, very optimistic on 2026. We have set the table for a very strong non-inflationary growth economy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. Let me ask you about the big news on the world stage. You just talked about the president's peace deals. Let's talk about Ukraine. U.S. lawmakers on both sides of the aisle, Ukrainian officials who I've spoken to say the peace plan for Russia and Ukraine, as written, only benefits Russia. Let me ask you simply, Mr. Secretary. Was this 28-point plan written by Russia?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
I – I have no information on that, Kristen. But I can tell you, I am the highest ranking U.S. official to have visited Ukraine. I went last February. And when I went last February, I went with an economic cooperation agreement between the U.S. and Ukraine. President Zelenskyy pushed back against it. The same people you're just talking about, they pushed against it. Mainstream media pushed back against it. You know what? We did it three months later, and now it is the centerpiece for the Ukrainian economy. That this agreement is even funding military plants for the very innovative military sector in Ukraine. So, you know, I would be very careful on conventional wisdom. And to go back to your question, it is a peace negotiation.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, okay, to that point, Republican Senator Mike Rounds, who was briefed by Secretary Rubio, came out and he said this. Quote, “It's not our peace plan. It looked more like it was written in Russian to begin with.” Secretary Rubio says the U.S. did write the plan. But regardless of who wrote it, U.S. lawmakers are concerned that it benefits Russia over Ukraine. Is the administration – is President Trump planning to pressure Ukraine to accept this deal?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Look, at the end of the day it's going to be a decision with the Ukrainians. President Trump is a president of peace. This war would not have started – there was no Ukrainian territory taken any time that he's been in office. Everything else, Crimea and this move have been when President Trump wasn't there. President Trump has put more pressure on the Russian federation with economic sanctions. The – the real – the laggards here are the Europeans. The Europeans tell me, "Oh, we are doing our 19th sanctions package." In my mind, Kristen, if you're gonna do something 19 times, you failed. Instead, President Trump moved forward with a bold initiative that the Europeans would not follow us on. He put a – a 25% tariff on India because they were buying Russian oil. The – the Russian oil going into the Indian refineries, guess who was buying that? The Europeans. They are funding the war on themselves. President Trump two weeks ago sanctioned Rosneft and Lukoil, the two biggest Russian oil companies. And the price of Russian oil has collapsed.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Very quickly. Is the Thanksgiving deadline set by President Trump a firm deadline?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
I – I haven't spoken to him about it. But I am – I am confident that the peace process is moving forward.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. Let me ask you about another topic this week that got a lot of attention. Six congressional Democrats released a video with a message to service members and intelligence officials. Take a look.
[BEGIN TAPE]
REP. CHRIS DELUZIO:
Threats to our constitution aren't just coming from abroad.
REP. JASON CROW:
But from right here at home.
SEN. MARK KELLY:
Our laws are clear. You can refuse illegal orders.
SEN. ELISSA SLOTKIN:
You can refuse illegal orders.
REP. CHRIS DELUZIO:
You must refuse illegal orders.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
President Trump accused these lawmakers of, quote, "seditious behavior punishable by death." Press Secretary Karoline Leavitt said that every order President Trump gives is lawful. Are you confident that every order that President Trump gives is lawful, Mr. Secretary?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
What – Kristen, what I am confident of is that this was a display of gross, gross negligence here. There are 2.1 million service members. And you're probably going to ask – going to say, "Oh, the, like, off-the-rail representatives have gotten death threats." Well, what about the 2.1 million service members? They – they have put their lives at risk. There is one commander-in-chief. And when you step outside of the chain of command and try to create the noise and chaos, that only helps our enemies.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Are you confident, though, Mr. Secretary, that every order that President Trump gives is in fact lawful as Karoline Leavitt has said?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
I – I am confident of that. And I am also confident that this was a complete mistake. They should retract it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay before I let you go, I have to ask you about your op-ed in The Washington Post this morning. A lot of folks are going to wake up to that. You call for an end to the filibuster. In the past, Leader Thune has said that it's just not happening. There aren't the votes. Mr. Secretary, do you believe that you have enough votes, that the president has enough votes to get rid of the filibuster?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Well, we – we will see come January 30th. Because that's the point of my editorial is to put the Senate on notice that the Democrats kept the government shut down. And Ezra Klein in The New York Times took the mask off. He said this wasn't about health care. This was about stopping totalitarianism. The Democrats haven't been able to stop President Trump in the courts. They haven't been able to stop him in the media. So they had to harm the American people, 1.5% hit to GDP, $11 billion permanent hit. They don't care. So I believe that Senate Democrats – if Senate Democrats close the government again, that Senate Republicans should immediately abrogate the filibuster. You should – you should ask Senator Klobuchar whether she will adhere to the filibuster and whether she will close the government again.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Just yes or no, though. Do you acknowledge at this point you don't have the votes right now to do that?
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
We will see. Can have them on January 3rd when we see this bad Democratic behavior.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Secretary Bessent, thank you so much for being here and for the robust conversation. We really appreciate it.
SEC. SCOTT BESSENT:
Good to see you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Covered a lot of ground. When we come back, my interview with New York City Mayor-elect, Zohran Mamdani.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. On Saturday I sat down with New York City Mayor-elect Zohran Mamdani. I started off by asking him about that surprising Oval Office meeting where President Trump praised him after months of criticism.
[BEGIN TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Were you surprised by the warm welcome that you got?
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI:
You know, I was looking forward to having the meeting with the president to speak about the needs of the eight and a half million people who call the same city we love home, and to speak frankly about the affordability crisis that is pushing so many of them out of those five boroughs. And I found in the meeting that I had with the president, a productive one and a meeting that came back again and again to the central themes of the campaign that we ran, the cost of housing, cost of child care, the cost of groceries, the cost of utilities. And it showed that this is an opportunity to now start to deliver so that people can do more than just aspire to struggle in New York City, but actually to be able to live there.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But did you expect it to be so chummy? What was going through your head when you were standing there?
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI:
You know, I thought again and again about what it would mean for New Yorkers if we could establish a productive relationship that would focus on the issues that those New Yorkers stay up late at night thinking about. Because so often in our politics we try and tell people what they should be worried about, what they should be concerned about. When you actually ask New Yorkers and you listen to them, you hear it come back to the issues that animated not just the conversation the president and I had with the press after our meeting, but frankly in the meeting itself. It was a conversation where we spoke about the need to deliver on this agenda. And I appreciated that when the president – when we had that meeting, it wasn't just in the Oval Office. He also took me into the Cabinet Room. And there we were looking at portraits of presidents of years gone by. And we admired a portrait of FDR. And in many ways, when I think about the candidacy that we’ve put forward, it looks to Fiorello La Guardia as the greatest mayor in New York City history. You can't tell the story of La Guardia without telling the story of FDR and the story of a relationship with the federal government that finally delivered at the scale of the crisis it was facing.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, prior to your meeting, I don't have to tell you this, President Trump repeatedly threatened to cut off federal funding to New York if you won. The president seemed to back away from that yesterday, though, in his public comments in that joint news conference that you all did. He said, "I don't think that's going to happen. I expect to be helping him, not hurting him." Do you believe him when he says that?
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI:
No, I believe the president and the conversation that we had. And I will continue to make the case, both to the president and to the country at large about the needs of New Yorkers. Because what I've found frankly is that New Yorkers have grown tired of being asked to believe in a system that has delivered very little for them. They're tired of a politics that expects everything from them while delivering little. And what they want now is a politics that can see the scale of the crisis in front of it and actually start to work together to deliver on that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You know, you ran a campaign, though, saying that President Trump had not delivered on his promise of affordability. Did anything that happened in that meeting make you think, yes, he can deliver on that promise for Americans, for New Yorkers?
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI:
Well, I spoke to the president about the fact that while our campaign technically began on October 23rd last year. For many people they became aware of it after the president won his election and when I went out and spoke to New Yorkers asking them who did they vote for and why in two neighborhoods that swung most significantly towards the president. This was Fordham Road in the Bronx, Hillside Avenue in Queens. And I shared with the president that when I asked those New Yorkers why did they vote for the president, they told me again and again it was cost of living, cost of living, cost of living. And when the president and I were speaking, we were speaking about what is preventing from delivering on that affordability agenda. Sometimes it's a lack of taking on the broken system that we have. And I spoke about it in New York City, for example, zoning regulations. We spoke about ULURP. This is a process by which you either approve or deny zoning changes that are made in New York City. We spoke about the need to change so many of those situations such that a developer doesn't tell you the thing more expensive than labor or materials is waiting. And we also spoke about the importance of understanding what it is that hurts New Yorkers and their pockets. It's their rent. It's their child care. It's their utilities. And it's their child care. Because the child care, I say twice, because it is the second highest cost after housing, $22,500 a year for a single child.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, let me ask you about the other threat that we heard from President Trump, to send troops to New York City to address issues of crime and immigration. We've seen him do this in other major cities. Did you get any assurances in your meeting, Mayor-elect Mamdani, that President Trump will not send troops into New York?
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI:
I told the president that the cornerstone of an affordability agenda is public safety. And that it is critically important to me. And for all that has been said and all that has been spoken about, and the tens of millions of dollars looking to make New Yorkers fearful of that question, the truth of it is in fact that I'm looking forward to working with the NYPD to deliver on that. And I shared with the president that my decision to retain Police Commissioner Jessica Tisch is in large part a recognition of the fact that in her time leading the NYPD, she has driven down crime across the five boroughs while starting to uproot corruption that was endemic in the top echelons of that department under Mayor Adams.
KRISTEN WELKER:
And I'm going to follow up with you on your decision to keep Commissioner Tisch. But to this core question that I think so many New Yorkers are curious to know the answer to: what did President Trump say to you? Did he assure you he will not send troops into New York?
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI:
He told me that he cared deeply about public safety. I said I cared deeply about the same.
KRISTEN WELKER:
But did he say he wouldn't send troops?
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI:
What I told him is that what separates New York City from anywhere else in the country is we have the NYPD. And I trust the NYPD to deliver public safety. And to me, that is something that I know that they can do, that they have done, and they will continue to do under my leadership.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So he didn't rule it out, in your meeting?
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI:
I made it very clear what we wanted to do was to deliver public safety and affordability, and the NYPD would be the ones to do so.
KRISTEN WELKER:
In that press conference with President Trump, a reporter asked you whether you believe that President Trump is in fact a fascist, a word that you've used in the past. You were about to answer. Then, President Trump sort of jumped in. And he said, "That's okay. You can just say yes. It's easier than explaining it." So, Mr. Mayor-elect, just to be very clear, do you think that President Trump is a fascist?
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI:
And after President Trump said that, I said, "Yes." And –
KRISTEN WELKER:
So you do?
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI:
And that's something that I've said in the past. I say it today. And I think what I appreciated about the conversation that I had with the president was that we were not shy about the places of disagreement, about the politics that has brought us to this moment. And we also wanted to focus on what it could look like to deliver on a shared analysis of an affordability crisis for New Yorkers.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You've also said in the past that President Trump has engaged in a, quote, "attack on our democracy." You've called him a “despot.” Do you still believe President Trump is a threat to the democracy?
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI:
Everything that I've said in the past, I continue to believe. And that's the thing that I think is important in our politics, is that we don't shy away from where we have disagreements, but we understand what it is that brings us to that table, because I'm not coming into the Oval Office to make a point or make a stand. I'm coming in there to deliver for New Yorkers. And a few weeks ago, I was asked by a reporter three words to describe myself. I said, "New York City." And that's what animated that conversation. How do we deliver for the people of New York City?
KRISTEN WELKER:
You have said that you want to raise $9 billion in new taxes, increasing taxes on the wealthy, on businesses, in order to fund your key policies, like universal child care, which you mentioned. You would need Governor Kathy Hochul to be on board with this – you'd need her signature. She had never publicly committed to increasing taxes. I know you just spoke with her. Mr. Mayor-elect, did Governor Hochul commit to you that she will support and sign on to your plan to increase taxes?
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI:
The governor and I had a productive conversation. And what we both committed to is working together for the affordability agenda. And one thing I appreciate, of the many, about Governor Hochul is that she's been focused, not just on affordability, but specifically on universal child care, for quite some time. And now is the time to bring a partner forward in City Hall. And I've said, plainly and openly, that I believe that these are two tax proposals that make sense, increasing the personal income taxes on New Yorkers making $1 million or more, by just 2% and increasing the top corporate tax rate to match that of New Jersey. And what I've also said is more important than how we fund something is that we fund something. And if there are additional or alternate revenue streams to do so, I will accept them and I will celebrate them because the most important thing is to actually deliver for the New Yorkers who, right now, can't even conceive of having a family in New York City because of how expensive we've made child care across the five boroughs.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, and your entire agenda's incredibly ambitious: universal child care, free buses, among other things, lowering rent. Can you deliver on this agenda without Governor Hochul agreeing to increase taxes?
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI:
Well, I'm thankful that I'm not going to have to engage in the hypothetical because I am confident of the two of us working together to deliver on this agenda, and ensure that finally – and this goes back to just that portrait of FDR – we look at what politics has been in the past. It has been, in the moments of such transformation, meeting the scale of the crisis. We can do that again.
KRISTEN WELKER:
So just yes or no. You think she'll raise taxes?
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI:
I think she'll work with me to deliver on affordability. I think raising taxes make the most sense. If there's any alternative that raises the same amount of money, I'm open.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Let's talk about another major issue which you referenced, policing –
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI:
So many major issues.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– crime. There are a lot of major issues, I know. Five years ago you were calling for defunding the police. Now you are in charge of the largest police department in the country. You have tapped Commissioner Jessica Tisch to stay on in her job. She has accepted. She wants to put thousands more police officers on the streets of New York. Will you do that, Mr. Mayor-elect?
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI:
I've said over the course of the campaign that I think the number we have had budgeted of 35,000 officers is a sufficient number. What we have to do, however, is allow those officers to focus on policing. And what I mean by that is that in 2020 the response time for the NYPD was less than 11 minutes. Today it's closer to 16 minutes. Large part of that is because officers are now having to deal with 200,000 mental health calls a year. And so our proposal is create a department of community safety, task it with the mental health crisis, the homelessness crisis, and allow officers to focus on serious crimes so we can get back to the work of delivering on this as opposed to being trapped in a political discourse without addressing the systemic crisis.
KRISTEN WELKER:
You know violent crime is substantially down under Commissioner Tisch's watch. Do you acknowledge that her approach is working? And therefore, do you need to listen to her when she says, "I need more cops on the street"?
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI:
The reason I made the decision to retain Commissioner Tisch is because of the importance of outcomes. The fact that she has been able to deliver on rooting out corruption while lowering crime is something to be celebrated. And I think the commissioner and I have been very clear that what brings us together is a shared importance of public safety. I think we can do that with the officers we have.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Would you rule out putting more police officers on the street?
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI:
What I will tell you is that the 35,000 we have budgeted, that's the amount that I think we need.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay. Let me ask you again, just going back to that press conference with President Trump –
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI:
Please.
KRISTEN WELKER:
– As reporters were leaving you were answering a question that I think was hard for a lot of people to hear about your response to protests outside of a Manhattan synagogue. Your initial response to that incident did receive some criticism, as you know. What is your message to Jewish New Yorkers who feel you won't be tough enough in your response to antisemitic incidents?
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI:
That I am looking forward to being the next mayor of New York City and fulfilling the commitment I've made to Jewish New Yorkers over the course of this campaign, which is a commitment to not only protect them across the five boroughs, but to celebrate and cherish them. And what that looks like is rooting out antisemitism. It looks like increasing funding for hate-crime prevention programs by 800%. And it also looks like ensuring that we have NYPD protection outside of synagogues and temples, especially on the High Holy Days. And I want to just say recently on Yom Kippur there was a horrific antisemitic attack in Manchester. A rabbi in New York City reached out to me and said, "Could you ensure that there's additional police protection outside of the synagogue for today?" I said, “absolutely.” And I also asked, "What if that rabbi did not know the next mayor of New York City?" We have to make it so that it doesn't matter who you know, it matters that you will get that safety and security because you're a New Yorker. That's the administration I'm going to put together.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. I do want to talk a little bit about the future of the Democratic Party. A number of Republicans are casting you as the face of the Democratic Party. Mr. Mayor-elect, I wonder, do you think that democratic socialists can win across the country, in battleground states, for example?
MAYOR-ELECT ZOHRAN MAMDANI:
I think a focus on the importance of dignity for working people is something that appeals to people across this country. I will not venture into the world of national politics and punditry. But what I will tell you is that in New York City we saw so many of the same dynamics we'd seen elsewhere. We'd seen a shift towards the right. We'd seen obituaries being written about the Democratic Party's ability to speak to young people, to speak to Asian voters, speak especially to young men. And I actually shared this with the president, that the very constituencies that he had won over that were a critical part of his increased vote share in New York City were the ones that we then looked at as who we should focus on to bring back into the party. And I think that when you speak to those constituencies with the same respect you'd speak to any other, you will see that they will then engage in the process. We saw an increase in voter turnout amongst 18-29-year-olds by more than 300%. And that's because we spoke to them as New Yorkers who are facing an affordability crisis, not as young people we have to finger-wag to participate in democracy.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
And you can watch my full interview with Mayor-elect Mamdani at MeetThePress.com. When we come back, Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota joins me next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back and joining me now is Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar of Minnesota. Senator Klobuchar, welcome back to Meet the Press.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:
Thanks. Great to be on again, Kristen.
KRISTEN WELKER:
It is great to have you here in person. Thanks so much for being here. I want to start off with what I was discussing with Secretary Bessent. Those Democratic senators, Congresspeople who recorded that video telling members of the military, the intelligence community that they can refuse orders that violate the law. The president called this “seditious behavior, punishable by death”. I want to play a little bit of what Speaker Johnson had to say about this. Take a listen.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SPEAKER MIKE JOHNSON:
Everybody knows that was wildly inappropriate. It is very dangerous. You have leading members of Congress telling troops to disobey orders. I think that's unprecedented in American history.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
Secretary Bessent just said this was a complete mistake, they should retract it. What do you make of that? Should they retract it? Is it dangerous, as the speaker said?
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:
Well, what is dangerous is not restating what is in the Uniform Code of Military Justice, which says that our troops cannot follow unlawful orders, very clearly. What is dangerous is the president of the United States threatening these members of Congress with death. Literally, saying that they should be executed. As Mark Kelly said, he is someone who has flown a plane, that's had missiles land nearly on that plane. He has taken anti-aircraft fire. He has launched into space, into orbit on behalf of his country. And he never thought that a president of the United States would try to execute him or to tell people. This is not at all a game. My dear friend, Melissa Hortman, the former Speaker of the House, and her husband, were killed in cold blood by someone who was engaging in political violence. That was the shooter. Or my other friends there, took between them, a husband and wife, 17 shots. Or what happened to Charlie Kirk, that assassination. Members of Congress threats have gone from 1,600 to over 14,000 in just a few years. And that is every year. That's what we're dealing with right now.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I hear what you're saying about those horrific acts of political violence, Senator. I wonder, do you know what the specific illegal acts are that your Democratic colleagues were referring to there?
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:
Well, it's very clear in this code for the military that you cannot follow unlawful orders. And that would be – I'll just use an example – some of the judges have now found in certain cities that it is not legal to send in the National Guard. And those National Guard members have come home. Some of them are still there. But if their commander were to tell them, "Hey, go out on the streets and do this and that," that's not following the order that is in law. So I just use that example. I'm sure my colleagues would have others. But the key is this has been a longtime tenet of the American military. And it is very clearly right there. And that is all our colleagues were saying. And they have every right to say it. They have served our country bravely, they know what they're talking about, and then this president's answer was to basically tell them, he retweeted someone else saying they should be hanged.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Let me ask you about another topic that got a lot of attention, started the week, Congress overwhelmingly voting to release the Jeffrey Epstein files. The president signed the bill this week. Do you have faith that the Justice Department will follow through and in fact release all of the Epstein files, Senator?
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:
I don't know how the Congress could be clearer on this, Kristen. The Congress, Democrats and Republicans, nearly unanimously said, "Release these." And right now, Pam Bondi has suddenly started a new investigation. There is something in that law that says if there are pending criminal investigations that there would be an exception. Except it says that it has to be "narrowly tailored," and they cannot use the excuse – this is a second clause – that this would be politically embarrassing or hurt someone politically. That can't be their motivation for doing it. So if she does this, if she refuses to release all of these Epstein files, this will be against the spirit and the words in that law. You also have the fact that Secretary Bessent has yet to release the Treasury files. And I always said as a former prosecutor, follow the money. And you can follow that money of how this was funded – an international sex trafficking ring. That's why the House is subpoenaing records from the banks and that's why Senator Wyden and Senate Democrats are focused on let's get the records from the Treasury Department.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. Let's turn to the big news overseas now, this discussion about a potential 28-point peace plan between Russia and Ukraine. The proposal includes Ukraine ceding large swaths of its territory to Russia in exchange for security guarantees that Ukraine is quite skeptical of, among other concessions. Do you believe that President Zelenskyy should accept this peace plan?
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:
I don't believe that this is a pro-Ukraine peace plan. Compromises are compromises. But what the president has put out here is a plan that is very favorable to Russia. I was just in Rome with Ukrainian kids meeting with the pope, just on Friday. And those kids, when you hear their stories, the heinous crimes that have been committed, thousands of kids kidnapped, brought to Russia, taken away from their homeland. You've got maternity wards bombed, apartment buildings bombed, just an invasion of a sovereign nation. So that is why any peace agreement has to have buy-in from the Ukrainians as well as the Europeans. Because the Ukrainians have been the ones who have shed the blood for not just their own homelands, but for the rest of NATO and the rest of Europe. And that's why this plan, which basically says, “You're going to be able to have more territory than you even have now, Russia.” That's what it says, there is no set plan for a peacekeeping force. There is no accountability for any war crimes. That's what they put forth. And I am glad to hear some of my Republican colleagues, like Senator Rounds, pushing back.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Very quickly, on the issue of health care, Democrats want to see the Obamacare tax subsidies extended. That was at the center of the fight over the government shutdown, the longest in U.S. history. Do you believe those tax credits are going to be passed? Or do you think this is a battle that's going to be waged at the ballot box, quite frankly, Senator?
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:
I would say to the people of this country on these plans that are seeing doubling and tripling of their premiums, 75% of them in red states, and I'd say to Secretary Bessent, look at what these people are going through right now. So number one, the president refused to negotiate. He still has an opportunity to do that. Number two, he used basically hungry people and air travelers as pawns in his game. But the third thing is, we are going to get this done, Kristen. We're either going to get it done by forcing votes or by putting it on legislation. Or we're going to march into the midterms against their resistance and win –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Okay.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:
– This will get done.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right. We'll be watching closely. Senator Klobuchar, thank you so much for joining us.
SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR:
Thank you.
KRISTEN WELKER:
We really appreciate it. When we come back, President Trump defends the Saudi crown prince over the killing of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, our Meet the Press Minute is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back. President Trump welcomed Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman to the White House this week, embracing the crown prince's claim of innocence in the 2018 assassination of journalist Jamal Khashoggi, despite the CIA concluding during Mr. Trump's first term that the Saudi leader approved the killing. Years before becoming Secretary of State, Marco Rubio, then a senator from Florida, joined Meet the Press and called for a swift and forceful U.S. response to Khashoggi's killing.
[BEGIN TAPE]
SEN. MARCO RUBIO:
That in fact he was lured into a diplomatic facility, murdered, his body chopped up, and that they sent a group of people down there to carry this out. That would be an outrage. It would be an atrocity. And that would be a swift response, certainly from Congress. Our moral credibility, our ability to call Putin a murderer, because he is, our ability to call Assad a murderer, because he is, our ability to confront Maduro in Venezuela or any of these other human rights atrocities, like what we see in China, all of that, is undermined and compromised if we somehow decide that because an ally who is important did that, we're not going to call it out. So I will just say this to you with full confidence: If this is proven to be true, there is going to be a response from Congress, it's going to be nearly unanimous, it's going to be swift, and it's going to go pretty far. And that could include arms sales, but it could include a bunch of other things as well.
[END TAPE]
KRISTEN WELKER:
When we come back, President Trump unexpectedly embraces Zohran Mamdani and clashes with Marjorie Taylor Greene. The panel is next.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Welcome back, the panel is here. Hallie Jackson, NBC News Senior Washington Correspondent and anchor of NBC Nightly News Sunday Edition; Jonathan Martin, Politics Bureau Chief and Senior Political Columnist for POLITICO; Republican strategist Sara Fagen; and former Homeland Security Secretary under President Obama, Jeh Johnson. Welcome to all of you for being here. Hallie Jackson, talk about a week of surprises. Here we have this bromance between President Trump and Mayor-elect Zohran Mamdani in the Oval Office. And then we have one of the president's biggest loyalists, Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene announced she's resigning amid this big feud with President Trump. What do you make of it?
HALLIE JACKSON:
What a world. What a moment. What a show, by the way. To hear the mayor-elect talk about the way that behind closed doors with President Trump, really giving us some insight into the way that he tried to use their sort of commonalities here. Not just the voters, the constituency, but also, you know, the real estate lingo, talking to him about that. Trying to get on his level there. I was speaking with somebody in the Trump orbit who's close to the president just last night who said, "Listen, there is a transactionality to this.” President Trump sees if by cozying up to Zohran Mamdani that there may be something in it for him. And perhaps that thing is the thing that Mamdani ran on, which is affordability, which is one of the president's current, you know, potential liabilities here. You pressed Secretary Bessent on this too and that's a real part of it.
KRISTEN WELKER:
J-Mart, how do you see what President Trump got out of Friday and this new relationship?
JONATHAN MARTIN:
It reminds me of the old line that America has no permanent friends or enemies, only permanent interests. Donald Trump's interest is being surrounded by life's winners. Mamdani is a winner. It's a win-win. Trump gets to be around a young, charismatic winner who happens to be from New York and he's basking in the reflected glory of this 34-year-old mayoral elect. And if you're the new mayor, you get forbearance. Whether it's weeks or months, you get to keep the federal dollar flowing to New York and you get to keep the National Guard away from New York, at least for the time being.
HALLIE JACKSON:
For now, yeah.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
But don't forget with Trump, nothing's ever permanent, right?
KRISTEN WELKER:
That’s right.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
So once Trump sees a clip on the air, he'll be back to calling him a loser again. It's just a matter of time.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, their differences are real, Sara. And I guess the question is, I mean, President Trump had been painting him as the face of the Democratic Party. Other Republicans had jumped on that band wagon. How does that strategy move forward now?
SARA FAGEN:
Well, I think first of all, it was one meeting.
JONATHAN MARTIN:
Right.
SARA FAGEN:
And also, after your interview, Kristen, I'm not sure. Let's watch Truth Social later today and see if the bromance breaks up. But I can argue that it was wise politically for the president to embrace him. You know, we've seen in this last month, you know, two of the 20 largest cities in America elect a socialist mayor. You contrast that with two women elected governor from Virginia and New Jersey who were more mainstream. Which is going to be the face of the Democratic Party? For Donald Trump and people with R on their name – behind their name on the ballot next year, you could argue Zohran Mamdani is a much better face for the Democratic Party in the group of Democrats you want to run against.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Well, Secretary Johnson, all of this is going on against the backdrop of this intensifying feud that I discussed with our guests this morning over this extraordinary video that was posted by Democratic lawmakers calling on U.S. service members not to follow orders that are illegal. You heard the backlash from Secretary Bessent. Very forceful, saying it should be retracted. What do you make of this? How does it play out?
JEH JOHNSON:
Kristen, before I was DHS, I was the senior lawyer for the Department of Defense. There's a well-developed body of law going back to the Nuremberg Trials, the Vietnam era, that someone in the field is entitled and required to disobey an order if it is manifestly or patently illegal. Like, for example, torture or shooting a detainee after he's surrendered. To merely make a requirement about something be illegal, leads – could lead to a debate in the field. "Well, I just read this law review article," or, "I just read that Washington Post story," so forth and so on. And so we have these rules in place that I think almost anyone in the chain of command understands that it has to be patently illegal or manifestly illegal in order to be required and permitted to disobey it. Now what the six said, is that sedition? Of course not. The risk that is created, obviously, by linking what they said to the death penalty, heightens the personal physical risk around them and President Trump ought to know that.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Sara, how do you see this unfolding? Is this something that could stick? Because Republicans want to be talking about affordability, as we've been discussing. But instead, they've been on defense, trying to explain these comments. And again, the fiery comments from Secretary Bessent.
SARA FAGEN:
Yeah, I mean, look, I think a lot of times when you get into these process arguments related to legal issues, international, they don't translate always to the politics. And so you would have to see some action actually taken as opposed to just words before I think that this had any kind of real impact in the body politic of, you know, elections and so forth.
KRISTEN WELKER:
Hallie, we're talking about what's legal and what's not. The big issue that started the week was the near unanimous vote by Congress to release the Epstein files. The question is, will the Justice Department actually do it? What are you watching for? You heard Senator Klobuchar.
HALLIE JACKSON:
Yeah, that's right. And I've had a chance to talk to a number of these survivors –
KRISTEN WELKER:
Yes.
HALLIE JACKSON:
– of Epstein abuse over the course of the last many months. And I can tell you a couple of things that they're looking for, and that they're very anxious about. Again, survivors, not a monolith here. But when you look at the release of files that the DOJ's now on the clock for, real, deep concern that there will be a significant number of redactions or a significant number of files that are withheld because of this active investigation that the DOJ is conducting now at the request of President Trump, at the direction of him a couple of weeks ago. That's a big concern. You know, I spoke with one survivor who said this discussion around signing the bill, the president calling it a hoax, et cetera, she said, "I want him to see the truth on our faces." This is important for them, that they are – they can feel validated in so many ways and that they can feel like their story is being heard. The other thing I'll just say, real anger that the president has not ruled out leniency for Ghislaine Maxwell. That is separate and apart from the files but that is a massive point of contention that I hear again and again.
KRISTEN WELKER:
I'm glad you bring that up, your interviews with the survivors have been so extraordinary, Hallie. J-Mart, pick up on that point because I think the question everyone has, are we starting to see what is emblematic of a broader rift between Trump and the MAGA base and potentially other Republicans who may be starting to see him as a lame duck president?
JONATHAN MARTIN:
Yeah, it's like when you're driving your car and a rock catches your windshield and there's a small little crack in your windshield, and you can barely make it out. Well, I think if you look hard enough, if you squint just right and the sun's catching the glass, you can see now that crack in the shield that is Trump's challenge with his own base. And like that crack in your windshield, guess what? It only goes one direction. It's only going to get worse. And I think that that's the challenge for Trump going forward is every day that goes by, he becomes closer and closer to being a lame duck. And Republicans on Capitol Hill understand he's looking out for himself, not them. And I think that's the fundamental challenge going ahead with Trump and the GOP. You saw it Friday in that meeting with Mamdani. This is the Trump party, not the Republican Party. And what he said undercut the party for next year's midterms because he's focused on the Trump legacy, not his party's legacy.
KRISTEN WELKER:
All right, guys. Thank you so much for being here. Great conversation. That is all for today. Thank you so much for watching. Have a very happy Thanksgiving. We'll be back next week, because if it's Sunday, it's Meet the Press.
