CHRIS MATTHEWS, host: Today on the CHRIS MATTHEWS SHOW, package deal. Bush says it's him in Baghdad or bust; and Bin Laden, he's back. Plus, Bill Clinton, the book. Who's that got scared? Those hot ones coming to you on today's show.
Point of no return. An Iraq pullout is unthinkable says the president, who Bob Woodward reports started the war in secret. Meanwhile, John Kerry passes Bush in the polls.
The dog that didn't bark. The CIA couldn't penetrate al-Qaeda before 9/11; can we catch bin Laden now?
Hogging the limelight. Bill is cashing in on his book, and the Democrats are scared. Is this election summer big enough for Clinton and Kerry both?
Plus, believe me or your lying eyes. The power of TV probes.
All that and more with a red-hot roundtable on your weekly news show.
Announcer: From Congress to the West Wing, he's been a Washington insider, now he's one of the capital's top journalists: Chris Matthews.
MATTHEWS: Hi, I'm Chris Matthews, welcome to the show. Let's go inside.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Interview: BBC's Katty Kay, NBC's David Gregory, Newsweek's Fareed Zakaria and Salem Radio Network's Bill Bennet discuss Iraq, presidential election and Bill Clinton CHRIS MATTHEWS, host:
Katty Kay covers Washington for the British Broadcasting Corporation. David Gregory covers the White House for NBC News. Fareed Zakaria, of Newsweek and ABC News, is the author of "The Future of Freedom." And Bill Bennett has become a radio talk show host with the Salem Radio Network.
First up, point of no return? Amid more--killing more hostages in Iraq the president shows little sign of doubt that the mission must be accomplished. Let's go straight to the Matthews Meter. A month ago we asked our 12 regulars, will Iraq help President Bush or John Kerry in November? Seven said Bush, five said Kerry. We put the same question to our group this week, and look at the change. Only two say it helps President Bush, 10 say it helps John Kerry. Maybe that's why the president had a prime-time press conference this week and made it clear that he knows he staked his presidency on Iraq.
President GEORGE W. BUSH: I fully understand the consequences of what we're doing, that it's the intentions of the enemy to shake our will. That's what they want to do. They want us to leave, and we're not going to leave.
David Gregory, it looked to me like the president had to move this week, hold a big press conference--30 to 40 million people watched him Tuesday night--because he was afraid that the--the--the--the debate was shifting towards a `come home or stay in Iraq' mentality.
Mr. DAVID GREGORY (White House Correspondent NBC News): And just the idea that Iraq is somehow careening out of his control, that's what it looks like when you turn on TV. That's what it looks like when you see mounting US casualties, the deadliest month since the war began. The president had to get control over this, he had to explain why there was violence, what the exit strategy really is, and try to reassure the country.
MATTHEWS: Did he do the job?
Mr. GREGORY: I think he largely did the jobs, speaking sort of past the press, and reminding people where the violence is coming from, and making the argument that no matter whether you agreed about the war going in there's no turning back now. There is simply no turning back. You thought Afghanistan was bad? If we leave Iraq too soon, it becomes a failed state, and--and it empowers everyone--Osama bin Laden, and everyone who would follow him if we leave before the job is done.
Mr. FAREED ZAKARIA (Newsweek): But, David, I think that it's true that he did a good job communicating resolve and communicating the stakes, but I think what people are wondering is do we--not do we have resolve but do we have smarts, do we have a strategy to actually stay in Iraq.
MATTHEWS: Bill Bennett, let's go back to what--a big breaking story this week and Bob Woodward, the much-respected Watergate sleuth, has come out with a new book this weekend. He basically said something that confirmed some thinking we had before: The president of the United States had decided on this war in the fall of 2001, just weeks after 9/11. He didn't tell Colin Powell; he didn't tell his national security advisor, Condoleezza Rice; he didn't tell his CIA director. All he told was the man he had to tell, Defense Secretary Rumsfeld. What's that tell you?
Mr. BOB BENNETT (Salem Radio Network): Well, if that--if that's true it's a real surprise to me. Who am I to question Bob Woodward, but this is not something that I--that I suspect. It's hard for me to believe he kept this a secret from Colin Powell and Condi Rice, is that what we hear as well?
MATTHEWS: That's what--it's in the book.
Mr. BENNETT: I don't think so. I don't believe it.
MATTHEWS: Let me go--David, let me go about the--the commitment of this president to this war.
Mr. GREGORY: Yeah.
MATTHEWS: It's clear now, whatever was clear in November 2001, that this president saying to the American people the other night, `If you're with me you've got to be with this war because I am this war. This is what I think about the world. You have to join this too.'
Ms. KATTY KAY (Washington Correspondent, BBC): With both George Bush and Tony Blair, who's also in Washington this week, have bet the bank on Iraq succeeding. This is how they're going to have their president--their leaderships defined. They have to make it work, which is why what David is saying is right. There's now a push to move beyond--a deliberate push to move beyond the causes for war, was it right or was it wrong, and there is consensus now, something new that I've picked up recently, consensus in Europe as well as in America, that now we have to focus on the future. We have to make Iraq work, and that means not pulling out early.
Mr. GREGORY: Well, this is how--this is how politically tenuous the president's position is right now. So committed is he, so tied up is--is his presidency to this war, that months after essentially suggesting that the United Nations were--was the League of Nations and were appeasers of tyrants, now the key to making the occupation work and to this patchwork democracy is the United Nations. It is the United Nations who will pick a transitional government. Why? Because American legimy--legitimacy has been so diminished there that we have to take that step back to fulfill our own goals.
Ms. KAY: And there--and there was an extraordinary moment...
MATTHEWS: So he's admitting--let me do this without being rough here. By changing policy so dramatically from a unilateral, `Let's do it, America,' to a `Let's join the world on this,' has he changed policy?
Mr. ZAKARIA: No, I think he is--I think he is...
MATTHEWS: Fareed:
Mr. ZAKARIA: ...adjusting for the first time in sig--significant way to try to recognize that we always had a legitimacy problem going into Iraq. The problem is it may be too late. At this point there is a sense that this is a naked American occupation. Any UN involvement will be window dressing.
MATTHEWS: If you change the faces of the participants in the occupation, you bring in a lot of Europeans, people from south Asia and all. Will that change the resistance in any way?
Mr. ZAKARIA: Well, it won't change the res--the resistance, it won't change the insurgency. It may change the level of support for the insurgency. What you're trying to get is not the 5 percent who are resisting. You're trying to make sure that the 95 percent are with you. The key now, as much as international legitimacy, it's domestic legitimacy. You have to get...
Ms. KAY: But let me--da...
Mr. ZAKARIA: ...Sistani and people like that to buy into this new government.
Ms. KAY: But, you know, there's a problem there as well, Fareed, which is what we're hearing from the United Nations is that Kofi Annan is actually very cautious about this plan because he doesn't want to be dumped with a plan that then doesn't work. They have been burnt so badly by this administration...
Mr. ZAKARIA: Well, then, if it won't work, you know what the administration will say. They will say, `Oh, you see, the UN...'
Ms. KAY: You'll see the UN badly hurt.
MATTHEWS: (Unintelligible)...I want you to look at something from the president, because your expertise is character and morality. Here's the president. He said three times he was asked during his press conference if he thought he made any mistakes as president, especially with regard to Iraq. Here's his answer.
Pres. BUSH: I wish you had given me this written question ahead of time so I could plan for it. Just put me under the spot here and maybe I'm not quick--as quick on my feet as I should be in coming up with one.
MATTHEWS: Well, that was a tough bite, but the fact is the president was asked--he was grilled. Should he admit he's made mistakes, or is that appealing to his feminine side? What would you say there?
Mr. BENNETT: Well, you know, I think it was--it was a foolish question, but worse--it was worse to persist in the foolishness. The press asked it once, the press asked--asked it twice. I played it on the radio seven times this question was asked. Not only is the press foolish for thinking he's going to answer that question, say, `You bet, here's a list of my mistakes.' The--the--then we're completely...
MATTHEWS: Well, I'm smiling here, Bill, because one of those who asked the question is sitting to my left here.
Mr. BENNETT: ...completely--wait--I know. Completely unimaginative to keep asking the same question over again. Excuse me, that question has already been asked. But, look, his presidency is tied to this and--and this war, and this war is tied to his convictions, and he has made that plain, and we shall see. But I don't think the key is the UN. We're bringing in the UN again. We've been back to the UN before. The key is the United States of America. That's the country...
Mr. GREGORY: Can I just say one thing as the person who did ask the president where he thought he made mistakes and why I don't think it's foolish? There are Democrats and, by the way, a lot of Republicans who think that the president has some explaining to do. You could be for the war but still demand some accountability about whether there was adequate post-war planning, whether there were weapons of mass destruction that aren't there...
Ms. KAY: But it...
Mr. BENNETT: Good question. Those are good questions.
Mr. GREGORY: ...to--to--to--well...
Mr. BENNETT: Six--six times.
Mr. GREGORY: But, Bill, that was part of the question that I asked him, was the fact that he doesn't admit mistakes, and the bottom line is there's a lot of people who feel like there is a stubbornness about this administration that even in the face of difficulties they give no ground. That goes to credibility. I'm not making that judgement. I'm saying asking the question I think was fair.
Mr. BENNETT: I hope.
Ms. KAY: And it...
Mr. BENNETT: I don't think he's stubborn. (Unintelligible)...stubborn, but...
MATTHEWS: OK, the implication--OK, but let me ask you about stubborn. Here, let me ask you about smarts. If a president or a leader of any country goes into another country in an occupation fashion and takes over basically and imposes its will, can't you predict in every country in the world there will be resistance and opposition and it will take the force of arms? Was the president surprised at the level of violence in Fallujah, the level of violence across the country north and south? And if so, did he make a mistake?
Mr. ZAKARIA: The two things you could have predicted and were predicted by many people, many of us writing, many people in the--the State Department, was that you would have a problem in terms of the number of troops you have, because the troops would have to perform police functions and you knew you were not--you're not going to have enough and that you would have a legitimacy problem, because the United States has an image problem in the Middle East and it was coming in, as you say, as a foreign country. What I'm--what I'm worried about, to go to Bill Bennett's point, we need decisiveness and resolve. We need stubbornness, but the stubbornness should not be so stubborn that you don't look at the fact that your policy isn't working, that maybe you don't have enough troops on the ground, that maybe the de-Baathification policy and the dissolution of the army was a mistake. That's where the stubbornness has co--has cost an enormous price.
MATTHEWS: OK, let's go to another point in the president's remarks the other night. The president emphasized that there--there's a religious piece to this war. Let's take a listen.
Pres. BUSH: The servants of this ideology seek tyranny in the Middle East and beyond. They seek the death of Jews and Christians and every Muslim who desires peace over theocratic terror.
MATTHEWS: You know, I wonder if the president isn't generalizing there from--from al-Qaeda, which is clearly anti-Western, anti-Israeli to the Iraqis on the ground who simply don't like foreigners in their country, like we wouldn't like--like the president should understand. The president said this week, `I understand they don't like being occupied. I wouldn't like to be occupied.' I found that refreshing. Bill:
Mr. BENNETT: Well...
MATTHEWS: The president recognized that if he were an Iraqi he wouldn't like our troops walking down the street.
Mr. BENNETT: No, I--you bet. He called it an occupation. He said he wouldn't be happy. But excuse him for generalizing from Osama bin Laden, who we heard from this morning, or a couple of days ago, saying, you know, it's about the Jews and the Christians. The Jews--the Jews are in the forefront here. So, I mean, this is kind of a theme...
Mr. ZAKARIA: I also point--but--but...
Mr. BENNETT: It's a kind of theme with radical Islam. But could I--let me say something about the earlier point. Which way is it? The critics say we need more UN, international legitimacy, and we need more US troops. Well, if there's more US troops, it's more US. Do we need them both?
Ms. KAY: No, I think--no, I think, actually, the critics are saying you need more troops, that clearly what we've learned over the last week or two is that Iraqi security forces are aren't doing the job.
Mr. GREGORY: But there's--but--but also those are apples and oranges.
Mr. BENNETT: I agree with that.
Mr. GREGORY: It's a political component and a security component. You can't have one without the other.
Ms. KAY: Yeah, but...
Mr. GREGORY: If you don't have--if you don't have the muscle you can't make the politics work.
Mr. BENNETT: Well, I'm--I'm certainly for the muscle...
Mr. GREGORY: Right.
Mr. BENNETT: ...but in terms of the international legitimacy I have to tell you, whatever people think of George Bush, the head of the UN is not, you said character or not, this is not a paragon.
Mr. GREGORY: Could I change my point? For the--for the first time what Bush was saying in that sound bite that you just played is that--and they didn't want to come right out and say it--but that he believes that this is a war of civilizations, between freedom-loving civilization and those people--going back from the bombings in Beirut in the early '80s up until the train bombings in Madrid and 9/11, that these are people who want to destroy what the West stands for.
Mr. BENNETT: But--but the...
Mr. GREGORY: And he didn't want to, you know, say that this is a crusade, but he does believe--make no mistake--that this is a war between...(unintelligible.)
Mr. ZAKARIA: But there's a danger, David...
Ms. KAY: But what hasn't been spelled out is how you get from the position we are in now in Iraq and with the situation that you've had in Spain, that you've had in Europe where we do seem to have a spike in terrorist threats, to this Utopia that they were describing, Tony Blair and President Bush, on Friday of a world that is free and democratic and better for everybody. And we're lacking those details.
Mr. ZAKARIA: Well, and--and...
Ms. KAY: We absolutely need to know what the strategy is.
Mr. GREGORY: Well, it's going to be nasty. I mean, however you get there, it's not going to be clean.
Mr. ZAKARIA: OK, the danger...
MATTHEWS: Let's look at one more messiness. Here's the president. This week he met with Israeli Minister Sharon, Ariel Sharon, backing up Sharon 100 percent on his demand for more land on the West Bank, and I just want to know, is this timing useful? To who? I just didn't see this timing useful to the United States. Does anybody think it was? For the president to say this about the--about the very tricky Middle East situation this week?
Mr. ZAKARIA: Well, this--this--this was a gift to Ariel Sharon. Sharon was going to withdraw anyway. It was--it was a sign of frustration and weakness, actually. He came to the White House and said, `Can you help me dress this up and make it seem like a bold move for peace?' As a result of this...
MATTHEWS: OK.
Mr. ZAKARIA: ...you're going to have rising anti-Americanism in Iraq...
MATTHEWS: Was...
Mr. ZAKARIA: ...and American troops are going to pay the price.
MATTHEWS: Is it reasonable to presume--to presume that Ariel Sharon, a smart, tough customer--he's been around for 100 years--was playing our political system here? Did he--saw the president facing re-election? He sees Florida...
Mr. GREGORY: That is part--that is part of it.
Ms. KAY: And--and he got exactly what he wanted.
MATTHEWS: ...Pennsylvania, and he says this will matter to the Jewish vote and the evangelical Christian vote.
Mr. GREGORY: And to the conservative base. And to the con...
MATTHEWS: Both votes.
Mr. GREGORY: This is also the president who's trying to shake...
Mr. BENNETT: This is just a little bit cynical, isn't it? Just--just a little too cynical, and I'm sure it has its political dimensions. But are...
MATTHEWS: Well, do you think that Sharon isn't smart about US politics?
Mr. BENNETT: Of course he is, and he should use American politics to his advantage, and we should use his to our advantage.
MATTHEWS: He did.
Mr. BENNETT: But there is something larger here, back to the earlier question. It is--it is something about the extermination of the Jews, which is sought by the enemies.
Mr. GREGORY: It's also about doing something to get the road map going again, which is dead. I--but I don't think it's overly cynical to look at a political aspect.
Mr. BENNETT: No, it's part of it. It's only part of it.
MATTHEWS: I think we better use this show to focus on what people are up to.
Anyway, when we come back, we're going to talk about the verdict on the 9/11 hearings. But don't worry if you missed the Richard Clarke testimony, just rent the movie. Sony Pictures bought the rights to Clarke's memoirs. But who could play Clarke? It's Harrison Ford who played Tom Clancy's--the hero in "Clear and Present Danger." It was Russell Crowe who played the whistleblower in "The Insider." Then there's my personal favorite, Brian Dennehy. He played the D.A. in "Presumed Innocent."
(Clips from "Clear and Present Danger," "The Insider," and "Presumed Innocent")
MATTHEWS: I'll be right back with the--with the uneasy question of whether 9/11 could have been stopped, and Bill Clinton's new book and why some Democrats are losing sleep over it. Plus, the power of the tube. Stick around.
Announcer: ...is brought to you by...
(Announcements)
MATTHEWS: Did 9/11 really have to happen? Plus, Bill Clinton's political throwing. Stick with me.
(Announcements)
Mr. GEORGE TENET: We never penetrated the 9/11 plot overseas. While we positioned ourselves very well with extensive human and technical penetration to facilitate the take-down of the Afghan sanctuary, we did not discern the specific nature of the plot.
MATTHEWS: Welcome back. That was George Tenet, CIA director testifying he could never penetrate al-Qaeda and that we won't be able to do it for five years.
Katty, that seems to be the bottom line. We can't get inside the bad-guy's operation.
Ms. KAY: That was an absolute failure of the intelligence community, not to be able to have the people on the ground, that there was cutting back of analysts, there was cutting back of Arabists, that they didn't have the lan--linguists. They could not penetrate al-Qaeda abroad or here. And that there was specific failures of not passing on information. What the commission was telling me, and I was listening to the hearings all week, was that they were horrified by the lack of communication between the different agencies.
MATTHEWS: Right. How come the pre--how come the CIA director the morning of 9/11 told David Bor--I said this last week, `I hope it's not that guy taking flying lessons out in Minneapolis.' And the president was so unbriefed as to say, `That's one bad pilot.' One guy knew what he was talking about. His synapses were popping, the president's weren't. Was the president really briefed well? David:
Mr. BENNETT: No.
Mr. GREGORY: Well, he, you know, he may have been--first of all, it appears he was not briefed well, and I think there were also questions about not only what was coming up to him but what he and the principals were demanding come up through the bureaucracy. That a sense of urgency about, `Yes, we don't know whether there's something here that's real that fits together, but is it that there's more we could possibly dig up?'
MATTHEWS: I mean you were drug czar. You know what it's like at the top.
Mr. BENNETT: Sure--sure.
MATTHEWS: Who's supposed to initiate action after all the briefings? Who says, `Now we got to do this, now we got to do that'?
Mr. BENNETT: Well, it depends on the issue, but you have to depend on the briefings, and God knows in the Moussaoui case, the head of the FBI--the head of the FBI, acting head, never heard about Moussaoui. Never heard about it.
MATTHEWS: I know. Never heard about the president's briefing.
Mr. BENNETT: It was a week or 10 days before Tenet--so if these guys don't hear about it, how do you expect the president to be aggressive?
MATTHEWS: Quickly.
Mr. ZAKARIA: The big story here, of course, is the complete dysfunctionality of the intelligence system, both FBI and CIA...
MATTHEWS: I'm afraid...
Mr. ZAKARIA: ...they need to be borne down.
MATTHEWS: ...we're going to get more bureaucratic layers out of this. Some sort of cheap spook or something.
Anyway, next up, hogging the limelight. Bill Clinton's much-anticipated memoir comes out this summer, and the Democrats are scared to death. Will the attention about Monica, Hillary, and the failure to prevent terrorism under Clinton knock Kerry off the airwaves? Thoughts:
Mr. GREGORY: I think--I think it's possible. I think that, you know, what's different...
MATTHEWS: Big Bill.
Mr. GREGORY: ...is--right--is that Kerry wants him into the fold, all right? This election cycle's different, the base really matters. They're not going to be running away from Bill Clinton, and now, of course, they have no choice, because he'll be right there holding up the book.
MATTHEWS: Bill, you know how to sell books.
Ms. KAY: Well, it will be very interesting to see...
MATTHEWS: Every time you go into a book market...
Mr. BENNETT: Not that I don't know how to sell books.
MATTHEWS: ...the local--the local anchor is going to say to you, `Now tell us about what you said here about Monica'
Mr. BENNETT: Of course.
MATTHEWS: `Tell us what you said about Hillary running for president.'
Mr. BENNETT: Of course.
MATTHEWS: `Oh, by the way, how'd you screw up counter-terrorism.' It'll be a disaster for Kerry.
Mr. BENNETT: Would I rather take a cross-country road trip with Clinton or Kerry? Clinton. I mean, you know what I think of Clinton. I don't think much of him, but he's interesting, and where he goes the cameras go. That's what they're afraid of.
Mr. GREGORY: Well, look, when he comes out and says, `I'm for John Kerry and here's why,' that still has a powerful message to the pure Democratic base.
MATTHEWS: OK. If you had to snag--if you--if you, Katty, if you had to snag an interview for the BBC, who would you rather get to take home to Britain with you for two minutes? I mean not physically but take him home mentally.
Ms. KAY: Bill Clinton--Bill Clinton. He's--everybody knows he's the one that's exciting to talk to.
MATTHEWS: Who--who would you like to have? Clinton or Kerry? Who would be the best guest?
Ms. KAY: He's the--definitely Bill Clinton. He's the one that's exciting, he's got the dynamism, he's the people--the person that people know. And they're the one they want to see.
MATTHEWS: I got to tell you, as host of this show, same here. He is the best in America. He is the best in America. Tell me something I don't know.
Ms. KAY: America is building its biggest embassy in the world in Baghdad. It's going to staff some 3,000 people. It's already being seen as a symbol of a Roman empire.
MATTHEWS: Will it be the British high commission? An American name?
Ms. KAY: It'll be the--it'll definitely be the US embassy.
Mr. GREGORY: I--I have a prediction. I think one of the biggest flameouts in the new Iraq--I think we're going to be asking the question, `Whatever happened to Ahmed Chalabi,' the guy who appeared to be, you know, the shoe-in to run the country.
MATTHEWS: David, don't go breaking my heart.
Fareed:
Mr. ZAKARIA: The first prime minister of--of the interim government of Iraq is going to be--you heard it here first--Ibrahim Ja'afari, the head of the Shia al-Dawa party.
MATTHEWS: Is he a moderate?
Mr. ZAKARIA: Reasonably moderate.
MATTHEWS: Does he like us? Reasonably.
Mr. ZAKARIA: He'll like us once he's appointed prime minister.
MATTHEWS: Bill--Bill Bennett:
Mr. BENNETT: I got a great suggestion for John Kerry. I don't think anybody's made it publicly yet, running-mate, Jane Harman. Select commission on intelligence. She's very smart, she's very tough. She didn't vote for the 87 billions, so she's with Kerry on that.
MATTHEWS: Hey, Bill?
Mr. BENNETT: She's more conservative than he is on a lot of things.
MATTHEWS: Hey, Bill? My pal--my pal.
Mr. BENNETT: He gets the Jewish vote back, some women's votes.
MATTHEWS: You want to bet?
Mr. BENNETT: Bet--bet? Give me good odds.
MATTHEWS: Thanks to our great roundtable--Katty Kay, David Gregory, Fareed Zakaria and Bill Bennett.
I'll be back with my thoughts about the penetration power of those TV cameras when they get--when the going gets rough. Stick with us.
(Announcements)
MATTHEWS: It's great getting your e-mails; keep them coming.
TEXT:
Chris,
Your lineup of guests last week was excellent. What a great balance of opinions!
-Donald Columbus, Oh
(Announcements)
Announcer: Closed-captioning provided by...
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Commentary: Historical Senate hearings (Audio clip of Diana Washington singing "What a Difference a Day Makes")
CHRIS MATTHEWS, host:
That's Diana Washington's "What a Difference a Day Made," and what a crisp commentary on the power of one day of live television.
I remember coming home in 1954 to see mom watching Senator Joe McCarthy take on the US Army. Those Army/McCarthy hearings began a half century ago next week.
The highlight came on June 9, 1954, when a career fueled by bluster, bullying, and--let's be honest, met its match in the wild Boston lawyer, Joseph Welch.
Mr. JOSEPH WELCH (June 9, 1954): (From file footage) Until this moment, senator, I think I never really gaged your cruelty or your recklessness. Have you no sense of decency, sir?
MATTHEWS: A few years later Senate council Robert Kennedy exposed another bully for the TV cameras: labor leader Jimmy Hoffa.
(Beginning of file footage)
Mr. ROBERT KENNEDY (August 7, 1958): Did you say, `That SOB, I'll break his back'?
Mr. JIMMY HOFFA: Who?
Mr. KENNEDY: You. Who's back were you going to break?
Mr. HOFFA: I don't remember it.
Mr. KENNEDY: Well, whose back were you going to break, Mr. Hoffa?
(End of footage)
MATTHEWS: A generation later came this magic moment in the Watergate hearings.
(Beginning of file footage)
Offscreen Voice: Mr. Butterfield, are you aware of the installation of any listening devices in the Oval Office of the president.
Mr. BUTTERFIELD: I was aware of listening devices. Yes, sir.
(End of footage)
MATTHEWS: This month we all caught a telling peek at how the Bush administration did or did not do its best to prevent 9/11. It came when Condoleezza Rice was asked the title of a memo the president had been given five weeks before the horror.
Mr. CONDOLEEZZA RICE: I believe the title was "Bin Laden Determined to Attack Inside the United States."
MATTHEWS: Expect to see that one again. A TV moment like that is national property. It ain't going nowhere.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Sign-off: The Chris Matthews Show CHRIS MATTHEWS, host:
That's the show. Thanks for watching. See you next week.
