Guests: Rep. Joe Walsh, Rep. Joe Crowley, Rep. Debbie Wasserman Schultz,
Rep. Michael Burgess, David Frum, Michael Musto
LAWRENCE O‘DONNELL, HOST: Good evening, Chris. Thank you very much.
HAYES: Happy New Year.
O‘DONNELL: (AUDIO BREAK) for the holidays, there was peace on earth. Well, there was peace in Congress anyway because they weren‘t there. But as the holidays have come to an end, so has that brief lame duck bipartisan moment.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(MUSIC)
CHUCK TODD, NBC NEWS: A cold welcome as the president still awaits his return from vacation.
ANDREA MITCHELL, NBC NEWS: The new gang in town.
TAMRON HALL, MSNBC ANCHOR: On Wednesday, the 112th Congress takes oath of office.
TODD: The new Republican Congress already flexing its muscle.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We might see a lot of trench warfare on Capitol Hill.
MITCHELL: Let the battle begin.
O‘DONNELL (voice-over): After the most productive lame-duck session in 40 years, the new Republican-controlled Congress is already headed for gridlock.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: One of the first orders of business is it try to roll back the health care overhaul.
CHRIS MATTHEWS, MSNBC HOST: The Republicans are obsessed with health care, in their case, killing it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We will vote specifically to repeal health care.
JOE SCARBOROUGH, MSNBC HOST: It is a meaningless legislative exercise.
MIKA BRZEZINSKI, MSNBC HOST: They‘re not going to have the votes in the Senate, is it a waste of time?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There‘s no way that health care is going to be repealed.
BRZEZINSKI: What‘s going on?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Having a symbolic vote to take that away does set a tone there.
O‘DONNELL: A sharply partisan tone set before the oath is even taken.
TODD: Battles ahead apparently over health care more so than he thought, spending and, of course, debt—
SCARBOROUGH: The one thing, John Boehner now, listen, we all know is, that the debt ceiling is going to have to be raised.
REP. JOHN BOEHNER ®, OHIO: It‘s not enough however to just hold the line on spending, we need to cut spending.
SCARBOROUGH: At some point, you need to say, OK, I‘ll vote to raise the debt ceilings, I want real cuts.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM ®, SOUTH CAROLINA: I‘m not going to vote for a debt ceiling increase unless we go back to 2008 spending levels.
DYLAN RATIGAN, MSNBC HOST: The exact same GOP that just a few weeks ago demanded tax cuts for the rich.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We can‘t spend our way out of debt.
O‘DONNELL: With a symbolic vote out of health care already scheduled in the House and possibly disastrous vote on the debt ceiling after that, Democrats wonder how dangerous are these new Republicans in Congress.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Well, I certainly don‘t want to see the clock turned back.
TODD: I am curious to see is—do Republicans want the first impression they give this month be about fights in the past.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: It‘s one thing to stand on the outside and always be the party of no, it‘s another thing to be governing now.
BOEHNER: We‘re ready to get to work. We‘re ready to be held accountable.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think we‘re going to be in for a very fast-paced and exciting for us anyway two years.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
O‘DONNELL: Good evening from New York.
2010‘s lame-duck session of Congress produced a string of victories for President Obama and the Democrats. But now that the holidays are over and a new eager freshman class of Tea Party Republicans in Congress is ready to roll back as many of President Obama‘s signature reforms as possible. Their number one target is the new health care law. Republicans have already scheduled a vote to repeal it on January 12th in the House.
Democrats in the Senate tried to reason with Speaker-elect John Boehner in a letter. They released the letter to the press today, thereby assuring that Boehner won‘t take it at all seriously. The letter tells him what he already knows.
“If House Republicans move forward with the repeal of the health care law that threatens consumer benefits like the ‘donut hole‘ fix, we will block it in the Senate. This proposal deserves a chance to work. It is too important to be treated as collateral damage in a partisan mission to repeal health care.”
New York Democratic Congressman Joe Crowley tried to trap would-be
health care repealers last November by daring them to reject the
government-run congressional health care plan for their families in a
letter co-signed by three other House Democrats. “You cannot enroll in the
very kind of coverage that you want for yourselves and then turn around and
deny it to Americans who don‘t happen to be members of Congress.”‘
Illinois freshman Republican Joe Walsh has risen to Crowley‘s challenge over his wife‘s objection. She has a pre-existing medical condition and will be forced to find a new plan in the open market. Walsh also plans to cut Social Security and Medicare and will vote against raising the debt ceiling.
He told “The New York Times” recently, quote, “I‘m going to D.C. absolutely prepared to lose in two years.”
Nothing but nothing makes a member of Congress more dangerous than a willingness to lose re-election.
Joining me now are the two Joes, Republican Congressman-elect Joe Walsh and Democratic Congressman Joe Crowley.
Congressman-elect Walsh, tell me about this conversation you must have had with your wife about you‘re going to reject the congressional health care plan on your principle of opposing government-run health care. But your wife has a pre-existing condition and could really use that plan.
REP.-ELECT JOE WALSH ®, ILLINOIS: Good to be here, Lawrence. Actually, I made this pledge to reject the congressional health care and retirement benefits back in January when Congress was attempting to exempt themselves from the impact—from the effects of Obamacare. It‘s something I believed in.
It‘s something I believed in in a year. I think we were sent here to be different. I think American people are sick of politicians on both sides of the aisle who act differently than the American people.
I don‘t want the American people to have to pick up the tab for my health care. That‘s not an easy decision. But a lot of Americans these days have to make very difficult decisions when it comes to their health care. I‘m going to have to go out into the private marketplace and find health care for myself and my wife. I don‘t want to burden the American taxpayer.
And with all due respect to Congressman Crowley, it wasn‘t his challenge I accepted. This is something that I‘ve been talking about now for almost a year.
O‘DONNELL: Congressman Crowley, to your challenge, the truth of it is the congressional plan is like most employer plans, you actually pay money into it right out of your pocket. You make premium payments, you make co-payments. Your employer also helps with the premium.
It‘s a standard employer provided style program in which—people think it‘s just free for senators and congressman, which it isn‘t. So, just to get the right description of it out there.
But, hey, so much for your challenge. You know, looks like Joe Walsh is willing to stick with his principle here. Does that surprise you?
REP. JOE CROWLEY (D), NEW YORK: Well, thank you, Lawrence. Let me just say I appreciate Mr. Walsh and his position. At least he‘s being honest and true about it.
The reality is most of the people who are saying they‘re rejecting the government subsidized, because working for Congress, we are subsidized by the Congress. And we do pay into it as you so well explained.
But others who have said they are also going to forego the congressional health benefits, they have a plan B. One is the retired Air Force colonel. He‘s going to be have the Veterans Administration to administer his health care. One is a former retired state legislator. He‘s going to have state benefits. Others are independently wealthy.
I don‘t know what Mr. Walsh‘s situation is. But I can say to you that was really about is not about individuals and their health care coverage, it is about a message to the American people—who stands with them and who doesn‘t, who wants to see this health care coverage through and who wants to repeal it.
Mr. Walsh ran against the bill that we passed that would deny people who have previous existing conditions like his wife the ability to get health insurance. We‘re trying to unravel that. He would undo or unravel the bill that would require insurance companies to pay 80 percent of the money they have on the benefits given to their clients. They would like to unravel it. I would not and my colleagues, Democrats would not like to see it unraveled.
O‘DONNELL: Congressman-elect Walsh, you see Democrats are isolating certain popular provisions of the health care bill that they passed, including the donut hole provision which is part of the Medicare prescription drugs program, makes it much cheaper for people at a certain income levels to get their prescription drugs under Medicare. That‘s the kind of thing that the Democrats think Republicans are doing to be afraid to repeal. And so, you will all stand accused of voting to repeal that item, along with many others, if you vote to repeal the entire bill.
It sounds like you‘re willing to cast that vote, but you think the majority of your Republicans in the House are willing to cast that vote with you?
WALSH: Lawrence, I really do. I—in speaking for my freshman class, look, I think we all realize we were sent to Washington in many cases on repeal. It‘s an issue I talked about every day in my campaign. We would hold health care town halls almost on a weekly basis.
I think the polls clearly support repeal. I can tell you anecdotally in my district, my small businesses in my district are scared to death of the cost of Obamacare. Seniors have real concerns about the Medicare cuts that are in this bill.
Look, the proof is in the pudding. We were sent here to repeal Obamacare. We think—we believe the American people are behind us. And it‘s our mission—we would disappoint the folks that sent us here if we didn‘t work really steadfastly to do that.
O‘DONNELL: Joe Crowley, this vote on January 12th is probably a vote that you Democrats are looking forward to. You‘re going to get a lot of Republicans recorded as voting against the Obama health care bill. And that may overall create a good impression for some Republican-based voters out there, but it does include, as the donut hole provision shows, some very specific, very popular items that you guys are going to be able to run 30-second commercials on in the next election, saying, you know, this congressman voted against this, he voted against that.
It looks like you guys are welcoming this vote on January 12th, aren‘t you?
CROWLEY: Well, you know, it‘s going to sound crazy. I think this is not about the politics. This is about the people. This is about something that‘s going to people today who cannot afford their own insurance.
I find it mindboggling, Lawrence, that this is the first issue they want to go after. They want to take away something we‘ve given to American people, or an opportunity for American people to afford health care insurance. What about the economy? What about jobs? That‘s what this election was about.
We got it. Democrats got it. We lost the House because we didn‘t get it initially. We didn‘t hear it clear enough.
People want us to address the issue of the economy and jobs. They don‘t want us to take away benefits that we have now provided for the American people.
O‘DONNELL: Joe Walsh, before we go, you‘re talking about planning in living in your office in Washington, D.C. You‘re going to be paid d $175,000. Is that—with that income, can you not afford a place to live in Washington?
WALSH: You know, Lawrence, again, it‘s important for me to live in my office. Look, I think for better or for worse, and I think for better, there‘s real change of culture coming to Washington. The American people are sick and tired of politicians who look and sound different than they do and don‘t understand their interests.
I‘m going to sleep in my office. I‘m going to be home all the time listening to my constituents. And, you know, when we talk about jobs—look, small business isn‘t hiring people right now because of the uncertainty in the climate. And one of the big reasons there‘s such uncertainty is because of the future cost of Obamacare.
O‘DONNELL: Joe Walsh, how many people back in your district is sleeping in their offices? Do you think that‘s going to get you somehow closer to their experience?
CROWLEY: Government subsidy.
WALSH: I live at home. I don‘t live in Washington.
O‘DONNELL: All right. The two Joes. We‘re going to have to live it there. I feel like I‘m back in my old Boston neighborhood. I had an elementary school classmate named Joe Crowley and I don‘t know how many Joe Walshes I knew.
(LAUGHTER)
O‘DONNELL: Congressman Joe Crowley, Democrat of New York, Congressman-elect Joe Walsh, Republican of Illinois—thank you both.
CROWLEY: Thank you, Lawrence. Thank you.
WALSH: Thanks, Lawrence.
O‘DONNELL: The other big showdown in D.C. will be over the extension
of the nation‘s debt ceiling. The Tea Party Republicans say no way, no how
but that line of attack will only put the nation in the middle of an even bigger economic crisis.
And one day after George Will declares Sarah Palin‘s presidential aspirations dead on arrival, all five to run the Republican National Committee say Sarah Palin could pull out a win in the general election against Barack Obama. Did any of them actually mean it? Republican David Frum joins me.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O‘DONNELL: Tea Party Republicans plan to draw a line in the sand over raising the debt ceiling, despite warnings they‘ll turn a financial problem into an economic disaster if they make good on their threats. That‘s next.
And later, Governor Chris Christie takes on his critics for going on vacation while New Jersey was snowed under. We‘ll be joined by the LAST WORD senior snow removal correspondent, Michael Musto.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O‘DONNELL: Tonight, even before the 112th Congress is sworn in, it is clear what the next big battle will be: raising the debt ceiling. The debt what?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP, “THE WEST WING”/WARNER BROS.)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I understood the debt ceiling situation perfectly before I talked to her.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Is there a rule against having a Treasury secretary who speaks English?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I don‘t know guys.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are we doing a press release on debt ceiling because I don‘t understand a word of it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No press release. Once the vote is scheduled.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Treasury figures the interest on the debt at the legal limit at midnight tomorrow. So, they want the president to press for the vote right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Which, of course, is a ridiculous idea.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Of course.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The leadership wants to schedule it at the last minute.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: How crazy is that?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We always want to schedule at the last minute just when the government is about to default.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That way it‘s too dangerous for all these senators to try to stop it.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Or stick an amendment on it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMAALE: It‘s just enough time for a couple of House and Senate speeches about how awful it is that we maxed out the national credit card, quick vote to raise the limit on the credit card.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: (INAUDIBLE) bill, just change the seven to an eight.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trillion.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why does Treasury want the president to read over a 20-page memo on a one Senate bill?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They like to run a worst case scenario.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: In case it doesn‘t pass?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. You know, the immediate collapse of the U.S. economy, followed by Japan sinking into the sea, followed by a worldwide depression, the likes of which no mortal can imagine, followed by week two.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: So, this debt ceiling thing is routine or the end of the world?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Both.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O‘DONNELL: Back when I wrote that scene for “The West Wing,” passing an increase of the debt ceiling used to be routine, because not doing so is the end of the world as we know it—a world financial calamity that would plunge us into a depression unlike any we‘ve never seen. Congress has its outright craziest has never spoken aloud or even dreamed of taking such a risk.
But that was before our debt hit the $14 trillion mark and before an election that has delivered Tea Partiers to Congress—most of whom didn‘t know there was a debt ceiling until I raised the question about how they would vote on it on election night.
Now, with enough Tea Partiers talking about maybe not raising the debt ceiling, the White House is really worried.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
AUSTAN GOOLSBEE, CHAIRMAN, WHITE HOUSE COUNCIL OF ECONOMIC ADVISERS:
This is not a game. You know, the debt ceiling is not something to toy with. That‘s the—if we hit the debt ceiling, that‘s essentially defaulting on our obligations, which is totally unprecedented in American history. The impact on the economy would be catastrophic. I mean, that would be a worse financial and economic crisis than anything we saw in 2008.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O‘DONNELL: And tonight on FOX News, some conservatives are worried, too.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHARLES KRAUTHAMMER, SYNDICATED COLUMNIST: Republicans have to be very careful here. In the end, the debt limit is going to be raised. There‘s no question about it. You cannot not pass it because it is catastrophic. It means that American debt is in question and that has never happened on our history. It can‘t happen.
So, when Republicans make demands on this, they have to have it in the back of their heads that if the demands are seen as unreasonable or too far of a reach, Obama could call their bluff. And then the reaction would be to blame the Republicans.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O‘DONNELL: Joining me now: Debbie Wasserman Schultz of Florida and Republican Congressman Michael Burgess of Texas.
Congressman Burgess, how are you going to vote on the debt ceiling?
REP. MICHAEL BURGESS ®, TEXAS: Well, Lawrence, we‘re still a ways away from it. My inclination is to vote no, but I do understand the importance of this vote. So, clearly, I‘m going to be considering it.
You know, this is one of those times, because we have a Republican House and a Democratic Senate, we do have to be bipartisan. There is not going to be a House-only vote or a Senate-only vote. There will of necessity have to be agreement and compromise between those two bodies.
It‘s not going to be easy. I think Charles Krauthammer is correct that we on my side do need to be careful. But make no mistake: the president needs to be careful also. This is a time of great peril.
Look, there are plenty of people out there who believe the fiscal position of our country is so perilously close to ruin anyway that this vote actually pales in comparison if we just simply continue to increase the debt.
I have voted for the debt limit—increase of the debt limit in the past. It was one of the worst votes I ever took. I—this is not something I enter into lightly. I do understand the importance of the vote.
But let‘s be honest—there has to be significant, significant curtailment of spending, not just discretionary spending, entitlement spending, and that includes the president‘s protected health care law.
O‘DONNELL: Congressman Schultz, do you think Republicans like Congressman Burgess who have bitten the bullet and voted for debt ceiling increases in the past will be able to prevail on enough Republicans and you will be able to bring enough Democrats to a vote to get things passed in the House when necessary.
REP. DEBBIE WASSERMAN SCHULTZ (D), FLORIDA: Well, I think what you
heard my colleague say is that he‘s leaning towards voting against it. So
I mean, so far, he seems like the rest of the Republicans that I‘ve heard over the last several days, like he‘s responding to the stranglehold that the Tea Party members have over the Republican Party right now. So, responsibility is thrown out the window and they are literally willing to jeopardize what the full faith and credit in the United States means, Lawrence.
So, you know, what Dr. Burgess has laid out is that we either—and that‘s what I‘ve heard him say—we either vote to raise the debt ceiling but only if we privatize Social Security and turn Medicare into a voucher program. I mean, those are simply unacceptable nonstarters that are absolutely going to damage the safety net that American seniors have in this country. It‘s a first class example of what Republicans are really all about.
O‘DONNELL: Congressman Burgess.
BURGESS: Wait, wait.
O‘DONNELL: Go ahead.
BURGESS: Let me respond to that because that‘s just sheer nonsense.
SCHULTZ: Well, you just said it, Mike.
BURGESS: And the congresswoman that is true. But, realistically, the damage that was done in the last seven months when an additional $1 trillion was added to the debt, and we got nothing for it. Do you see new infrastructure? Do you see jobs? Do you see new schools?
SCHULTZ: Really?
BURGESS: This is the problem that is out there. The federal spending is completely out of control. And if there are not safeguards, I‘m prepared to vote against the increase in the debt limit. Absolutely.
O‘DONNELL: Well, Congressman Burgess, as you know, it‘s easy to vote against the debt ceiling. And very frequently, you know, half—almost half the Senate votes against it because they know one simple thing, what Charles Krauthammer has said, which is that it is going to pass.
BURGESS: Senator Obama voted against the debt limit in 2006.
O‘DONNELL: That‘s right. Barack Obama cast one of those convenient votes against it in the Senate because he knew it was going to pass. I‘ve seen both Republicans and Democrats vote both ways on it, depending on who was in power because—but they always know it‘s going to pass.
Do you feel that within your caucus, there is any serious threat to it actually passing? Do you think your caucus is capable of actually jeopardizing the world economy by not passing it?
BURGESS: Well, look, the economy of the United States is perilously close to ruin in any case. I think this is our opportunity to pull us back from the brink. And using the leverage, we have so few tools at our disposal.
Let‘s face it, we don‘t have the Senate. We don‘t have the White House. This is going to be our one opportunity to really dial back the spending level. And that is, I think, the most important thing for me to see as this debate goes forward.
O‘DONNELL: Congresswoman Schultz, it looks like a game of chicken may be coming up here because this is, as we call it on the Hill, a must pass bill. Each side knows it must pass, which means each side can make demands. President Obama and the Democrats can make demands that the debt ceiling pass as a clean stand-alone bill. Republicans can make demands that it pass only with attached spending cuts.
How do you see this plan playing out? And do you think the Democrats can hold the line and get a clean debt ceiling passed without any draconian spending cuts attached to it by Republicans?
SCHULTZ: Well, if Republicans realize that they are in the majority now in the House and that they must be responsible and that they can‘t just sit on the sidelines and fold their arms and make criticisms, then possibly.
But I think that the danger here is—you know, they have shut down the government before, let‘s remember back when Newt Gingrich was speaker. They‘ve shut down the government before. They are reckless. They have demonstrated they are willing to engage in reckless behavior. And they are also willing to say anything regardless of truth because we—the reality is last year, we created over a million private sector jobs. I mean, we got significant economic turnaround from the Recovery Act, including for the middle class.
(CROSSTALK)
BURGESS: Look, if you‘re going to spill stories, start out with once upon a time. This is your fantasy about the Dark Ages.
SCHULTZ: Dr. Burgess, I did not interrupt you. So, as I was saying, what we did last year was we went well on our way towards turning this economy around. If the Republicans are so irresponsible that they are going to jeopardize full faith and credit of the United States by not raising the debt ceiling, then they—that is going to be on them because they are in charge of the House of Representatives now. I hope that they are willing to be responsible and do the right thing.
We‘re going to focus on spending cuts because we need to make sure that we get a handle on spending. But we also need to make sure we do that responsibly. If what they mean by spending cuts is privatizing Social Security and turning Medicare into a voucher program, which is absolutely what you just alluded to, Mike, then we are going to have a serious problem in America.
O‘DONNELL: OK. We‘re going to have to leave it right there.
SCHULTZ: But, look, Democrats have two branches of government right now. It‘s hard to see how it‘s a Republican‘s responsibility—
(CROSSTALK)
SCHULTZ: We‘ll see.
O‘DONNELL: All right. Now, we have an agreement. We are all going to stop.
Congressman Michael Burgess, thank you very much for joining us tonight. Please come back as soon as you decide how you‘re going to vote on the debt ceiling increase.
BURGESS: Anytime.
O‘DONNELL: Congresswoman Debbie Wasserman Schultz, Democrat of Florida, thank you as always for joining us tonight.
SCHULTZ: Thank you, Lawrence.
O‘DONNELL: New Jersey Governor Chris Christie is applying his rough, unyielding style of leadership of leadership to the criticism against him about missing last week‘s crippling blizzard while vacationing in Florida with his family. That‘s tonight‘s “Rewrite.”
And up next, your generosity continues to benefit children of Malawi. We‘ll have the latest fundraising total in our effort to help Kids in Needs of Desks in Africa.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O‘DONNELL: Since our last show a couple days before Christmas, you continued your remarkable outpouring of generosity to our KIND Fund, Kids in Need of Desks, a unique partnership between THE LAST WORD and Unicef, set up to provide desks for classrooms in Africa where students have never seen desks.
The desks we are delivering to these classrooms are made in Malawi. The money you‘re contributing will be paid to workers in small factories there and will help lift their families out of poverty.
The money we raised far exceeded my expectations the very first day the fund was open, after my announcement on this show December 16th. As we left it on December 23rd, we had just cracked the million dollar threshold, a level I never dreamed of reaching.
With no further importuning from me since then, over the Christmas holiday and New Years holiday, you have added almost 700,000 dollars, bringing the KIND Fund total, as of broadcast time tonight, to 1,696,802 dollars. At 48 dollars a desk, that will deliver 35,350 of these desks.
These desks are designed to seat two children. At the overcrowded schools in Malawi that I‘ve been to, they can easily fit three on this little bench.
Though we‘re already on track to deliver more desks this year than what I ever could have hoped for, we are many years away from providing a desk for every kid in Malawi who shows up for school, never mind every kid in Africa.
But the KIND Fund is now, as I intended it to be, the permanent cause of this show. You will always be able to go to our website, LastWordDesks.MSNBC.com to buy desks. Twenty four dollars provides at least one seat that will immediately lift a child off the floor and give her the dignity she deserves in the classroom.
Every year, for many years to come, that desk will be occupied by another student. So your gift, as they say, will keep on giving. What you have given already is going to dramatically improve the classroom experience for hundreds of thousands of students over the service life of these desks.
And among those hundreds of thousands of students, surely there are a few, a couple, thanks to your kindness, who will connect with the classroom experience as never before, and go on to university and, we can hope, do great things.
Pulling themselves up by their bootstraps isn‘t possible for kids who have never owned shoes. But with your help, you are allowing these children to move one step closer to things they never imagined possible and to dream bigger dreams.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O‘DONNELL: In the spotlight tonight, the Republican National Committee held the debate today among the candidates seeking chairmanship. Four candidates are vying to unseat incumbent Chairman Michael Steele, the news media‘s unanimous choice to retain the position. We in the media know no other chairman is likely to deliver us much needed material for our daily digest.
During the debate, the moderator asked the candidates about their favorite book.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MICHAEL STEELE, RNC CHAIRMAN: “War and peace.” “The best of times and the worst of times.”
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O‘DONNELL: THE LAST WORD crack research staff dug deep and discovered by watching most of today‘s cable news shows that that quote is not from “War And Peace.” It‘s the opening line of “A Tale of Two Cities.”
But the silliest line of the debate was said by all five candidates. Here is their response when asked about the election chances of the most recent losing vice presidential candidate who will never be president.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Steele, can Sarah Palin win a general election?
STEELE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, absolutely. Sorry.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O‘DONNELL: Joining me now, former George W. Bush speech writer and current editor of FrumForum.com, David Frum. David, we know they had to say that. If you asked candidates for the Democratic National Committee does Dennis Kucinich have a chance of winning, they would all have to say, yeah, it‘s possible.
But do any of them believe it? Do some of them believe it? Please don‘t tell me they all believe it.
DAVID FRUM, FRUMFORUM.COM: Look, when they say, yes, she can, they don‘t just mean it‘s mathematically possible, which of course it is. What they are trying to say is this: these people are running for the job of being umpire, referee of the next Republican presidential contest. Nobody would feel confident if, however the teams were handicapped in any kind of league game, that the umpires early on declared we don‘t think this team or that team has much of a chance.
They are going to have to be extra impartial. The Republican party has often been the party in power in the presidency. The chairman has often been chosen by a president or by a nominee. This is a very different situation, kind of unusual for Republicans in recent times. And they have to be extra scrupulous.
O‘DONNELL: Let‘s listen to what George Will had to say about this yesterday.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE WILL, “THE WASHINGTON POST”: I believe the president‘s secret weapon may be the Republican nominating electorate, because there‘s one person high in the polls, Sarah Palin, who cannot be elected because she cannot compete where elections are decided, in the collar counties around Chicago, Montgomery County outside Philadelphia. Just can‘t compete there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O‘DONNELL: David, you thoughtful Republicans seem to be getting nervous. You, George Will and others deeply concerned that the party might go in the Palin direction. It would be the best gift the party could give to Barack Obama, isn‘t it?
FRUM: You could invent a better gift, but it would be a pretty big gift. One of the interesting stories of this cycle—and it conflicts a little bit with the story line of the debt ceiling—is the Republican party is actually a pretty lucid and level headed organization. It‘s easy to get on cable TV if you act like a maniac. And cable TV, of course, seeks out the maniacs.
It does kind of a disservice to the many non-maniacs. One of the big stories is how quietly Republican leaders are making sure Sarah Palin does not get the nomination, and trying to coalesce around somebody who could be a credible candidate, a good president, someone who could represent the whole country.
A lot of tires are being kicked right now. Could that be Mitt Romney? Could it be somebody who is kind of a second tier candidate right now, like a Mitch Daniels. Could it be somebody who is not in the race, like a Jeb Bush.
But when you listen to Karl Rove, when you listen to Ed Gillespie, who have created the shadow Republican National Committee, they say explicitly what I think a lot of the RNC candidates think in their heart, which is that the republicans have to offer the best possible president as an alternative to Barack Obama.
O‘DONNELL: David, running on your image as you speak is the list of names of every losing vice presidential candidate who has never gone on to be president, which is every single candidate in the television age. Do Republicans in Iowa, in the caucuses, do you think, who seem, by the way, to be among your serious electorate out there—do you think they are capable of somehow beginning the overthrow of this unprecedented—just perfect string of a record of if you lose in the vice presidential slot on the ticket, you will not be president.
FRUM: I don‘t think there are any rules. I remember there used to be some rule if the National League did this, the Democrats would do that. Modern history of the presidency is very short. The TV era begins in the 1950s. The era of modern primary contest really begins in the 1970s. We‘re dealing with a small decision set.
But I think people will be wise not because of precedent, but because they will be wise.
O‘DONNELL: David Frum, editor of FrumForum.com, thanks for joining us tonight.
FRUM: Thank you.
O‘DONNELL: In New Jersey, Governor Chris Christie says he‘s a family man first and foremost and governor second, and attacks those who say he shouldn‘t have stayed on a family vacation to Florida when a blizzard was slamming his state. It‘s tonight‘s Rewrite.
And what do you get when you mix New Year‘s Eve, the ball drop, and Snooki? Something only Michael Musto can talk us through, ahead on THE LAST WORD.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O‘DONNELL: Time for tonight‘s Rewrite. A lot of the snowstorm from last week‘s blizzard here in the northeast is gone. But the political fallout is still hanging around, much like the smell from all the garbage still lining New York City‘s streets. Here in the City, Mayor Michael Bloomberg faced the press during the storm and received some strong criticism for the response.
But across the Hudson River in New Jersey, the state‘s Republican governor, Chris Christie, didn‘t face the press until New Year‘s Day, six days after the storm hit, because he was on vacation at Disney World in Florida, something he‘d promised his children several months before.
The state‘s lieutenant governor was also away on a vacation with her ailing father, also something that was arranged earlier last year. Governor Christie left state Senator Stephen Sweeney (ph) in charge in his absence.
And for that, the governor has faced sharp criticism. On Saturday, he called the reaction partisan and said local mayors were the ones who should buck up and take responsibility for, quote, “dropping the ball if local streets weren‘t clear.”
He also said the notion that he wasn‘t involved in directing the cleanup efforts is simply false, thanks to modern technology.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE ®, NEW JERSEY: Anybody can get me any minute of any day, given the way we communicate now, you know, whether it‘s by cell phone or text message or Twitter, for God‘s sake.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O‘DONNELL: The Snowmageddon fallout continued over the weekend, but Governor Christie refused to back down. This morning, he hit the radio talk shows in New Jersey, including this interview with Jim Garheart (ph) on WKXW.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIE: Listen, my number one priority, Jim, is to be a husband and father. That‘s got to be everybody‘s number one priority.
Jim, first of all, the plan was already in place.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So what?
CHRISTIE: If you look—No. And I was still providing exactly the type of leadership that needed to be provided, by doing exactly what I have been doing if I was here. And 95 percent of all the state roads were cleared—absolutely cleared by Tuesday morning. And we did, I think, a very, very good job.
I would not have been on the back of a snowplow, Jim, plowing any of the roads in the state.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O‘DONNELL: Meanwhile, another New Jersey politician has pretty much dodged any criticism, Newark Mayor Cory Booker. Here he is shoveling snow a few years ago. According to his official Twitter feed, during this most recent blizzard, he delivered diapers to someone who couldn‘t get out to do any shopping and dug out another person‘s car. All valiant and thoughtful and considerate things to do. But you don‘t need a mayor to do those things.
All mayors and governors can really do during a blizzard is pretend to be helpful. They know nothing more about snow removal than you or I do. And if you vote for them on the basis of what they pretend to know about snow removal, then you have been played for a fool.
Cities and states above the Mason Dixon Line have professionals on their payrolls who think about snow removal all the time. They think about it in August. They look forward to it. They know what to do when it happens. They don‘t panic when snow falls. They just go do their jobs, which is why, as Governor Christie correctly noted, 95 percent of all the state roads were cleared, absolutely cleared, by Tuesday morning, which is exactly how long it would have taken if Chris Christie was in New Jersey, posing for phony photo ops on snowplows like some of his predecessors have done.
So tonight‘s Rewrite is not for Governor Christie, who kept his promise to his family at absolutely no cost to his state. It‘s for the people attacking him for not doing any of the ineffectual phony stunts they seem so impressed by, when other politicians summon the media to watch them shoveling snow.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
O‘DONNELL: Last Sunday‘s blizzard left New York City covered in over 20 inches of snow. The storm hit the city‘s outer Burroughs hardest. Air traffic was grounded and thousands of flights canceled, public transit nearly nonexistent. Side streets went unplowed for days.
So as we‘ve seen, as bad as it got with the media for Governor Chris Christie during New Jersey snow removal process, it got even worse for New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
MAYOR MICHAEL BLOOMBERG (I), NEW YORK: If your street was plowed, the response was adequate. If your street was not plowed, the response was inadequate. We cannot do everything all the time. Yelling about it and complaining doesn‘t help.
I regret everything in the world.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
O‘DONNELL: The philosopher king of New York City eventually managed to fake an apology and claim the criticism was, quote, “character building for him.”
So how bad was it really? I was in Los Angeles fighting the frigid 60 degree temperature that challenged that city‘s heating system during the holidays, so I for one have no idea.
So joining me now is lifelong New Yorker and THE LAST WORD‘s senior snow removal correspondent, Michael Musto of “The Village Voice.”
Michael, so how bad was it? And should the mayor of new York regret everything in the world?
MICHAEL MUSTO, “THE VILLAGE VOICE”: Of course. He should anyway. For celebrities, it was actually great, Lawrence. Lindsay Lohan burst out of rehab saying, oh, white powder everywhere. It‘s amazing. Ricky Martin was like ten inches, I love it.
You know what, for regular New Yorkers like myself, it was rough. I was out there on my bicycle in the middle of the blizzard. I felt like I was surfboarding, except there were rats instead of sharks around me. It was rough. And Bloomberg‘s response was really ghastly.
O‘DONNELL: Wait a minute. If you could be out there on a bicycle in the middle of the blizzard, that sounds to me like it wasn‘t that rough.
MUSTO: I was the only one doing so, including delivery boys.
O‘DONNELL: One crazy person was out there on a bicycle.
MUSTO: Yes. But there was nobody around me to point and laugh as usual. But Bloomberg‘s response was pathetic. He was saying, well, New York is going on as usual. Tourists are seeing shows. Yeah, they are stranded here and they‘re seeing shows. They are seeing “Spider-Man.” They are going to get killed.
O‘DONNELL: By the way, what is he doing about “Spider-Man” and all those industrial accidents that are occurring on that stage.
MUSTO: Hopefully he‘s not going to see it, because he‘ll get hurt.
O‘DONNELL: So as New York storms go, this really was about as bad as you‘ve experienced in your lifetime of New York blizzards?
MUSTO: Yeah, because by the second day, I was still on my bike. But there was more white than in a Russian novel or a Klan meeting. I couldn‘t even get to visit my mother in the Burroughs and get my weekly tomato sauce. It was bad.
O‘DONNELL: I was very—I got here last night. I was very disappointed. I went looking for snow and I couldn‘t find it. Has your garbage been collected yet?
MUSTO: Well, it never was, so that‘s nothing to do with the snowstorm. No, the street is like walking through Calcutta, minus the charm.
O‘DONNELL: Now, we had a big New York, New Jersey rivalry problem on New Year‘s Eve, involving, of course, Snooki, who was planning in the MTV coverage to be dropped in a ball in Times Square to ring in the New Year. She would pop out of the ball.
Not allowed to do that in Times Square, so they relocated that whole scene to Seaside Heights in New Jersey. Do you think Mayor Bloomberg should be blamed for losing Snooki to New Jersey and the ball drop moment?
MUSTO: I‘ll blame that on Giuliani, just because I didn‘t like him even worse than Bloomberg.
O‘DONNELL: He‘s not mayor anymore.
MUSTO: I know, but it has to be his fault in some Karmic way. Look, she looked like Snagellapolos (ph) crossed with something from “The Wizard of Oz.” She had that red cup that‘s always attached to her, filled with Jersey coffee, ie Jack Daniels.
When she came out, she said—this was brilliant, Lawrence. She said Happy New Years. Watch out, Oscar Wilde. By the way, I bought her new novel. While I didn‘t buy it. I read it before re-gifting it. It‘s everything you‘d expect from Snooki.
But yes, I blame this on Bloomberg. I blame my garbage on Bloomberg.
He‘s shorter than Snooki. He‘s inconsequential. He doesn‘t even exist.
O‘DONNELL: Michael, I‘m told you have gone complete gaga on us, and you did a meat dress thing.
MUSTO: No, I was hoping you wouldn‘t find out.
O‘DONNELL: There‘s a rumor that you have your own meat dress. Any truth to that?
MUSTO: This is the cover of the current “Village Voice,” where I did a look back at the year, and I did Lady Gaga‘s beef with the world. Talk about cold. That dress was so cold that I had to have them take it off me and heat it up with a blow drier we happened to have, because I was also playing Justin Bieber in the photo session. It all works out. I blame it all Bloomberg.
O‘DONNELL: Michael Musto, the man on the bicycle. If you‘re wondering who that guy was on the bicycle in the middle of the blizzard, it was Michael Musto of “The Village Voice.” Thanks for joining us tonight, Michael.
MUSTO: Thank you.
O‘DONNELL: You can have THE LAST WORD online at our blog, TheLastWord.MSNBC.com. And you can follow my Tweets @Lawrence. That‘s tonight‘s LAST WORD. “COUNTDOWN” is up next.
END
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