Guest Host: Willie Geist
Guests: Thomas Sawyer, Rob McNeil, David Frum, Alex Wagner, Russell Simmons, Chris Van Hollen
WILLIE GEIST, GUEST HOST: Chris, good to see you. Thanks so much.
From way too early to way too late, I‘m Willie Geist, in for Lawrence O‘Donnell, and up way fast my bedtime.
Less than 2 percent of American travelers will be patted down by the TSA at an airport this week. So, why is everybody so worked up? Little groping from a stranger wearing blue latex gloves never hurt anybody. Trust me.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
(MUSIC)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Growing public outrage over enhanced airport screening.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I think this has caught the TSA and Homeland by surprise.
GEIST (voice-over): Probably not as surprised as airport passengers getting the new airport pat downs.
JOHN TYNER, PASSENGER: You touch my junk, I‘m going to have you arrested.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We‘ve been hearing, I think you would almost call them horror stories.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They pulled me into another room and they searched me again. And I just felt dirty.
GEIST: Officials say the TSA would rather look, but not touch.
ROBERT GIBBS, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: To avoid something like that, go through that screening device.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Say no, you‘ll be pulled aside by a TSA agent.
MATT LAUER, NBC NEWS: John, I think you‘re in a tough position.
GEIST: The government says 99 percent of passengers will be passed up for a pat down.
JANET NAPOLITANO, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: A small percentage of passengers will get patted down.
GEIST: Unless a scanner goes off.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And that‘s when the fun begins.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We‘re talking somewhere around 8 percent or so.
ANDREA MITCHELL, MSNBC HOST: Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano -- she acknowledges that there may be room for adjustment.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There‘s wiggle room here, not elbow room.
GEIST: And the alternatives?
GOV. BOBBY JINDAL ®, LOUISIANA: We‘re not talking about profiling.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The recent approach that some people would call profiling.
GEIST: These close encounters are leaving no one satisfied.
PAT BUCHANAN, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: I‘m sympathetic frankly with the security guys. They are trying to keep us all alive.
GEIST: Some TSA screeners are now anonymously complaining, “Molester, pervert, disgusting, an embarrassment, creep. These all words I‘ve heard today at work describing me.”
BOB SCHIEFFER, CBS NEWS: But would you submit to one of these pat downs?
HILLARY CLINTON, SECRETARY OF STATE: Not if I—not if I could avoid it.
No. I mean, who would?
WHOOPI GOLDBERG, TV HOST: You can check anything you want. And if you feel something you like and squeeze it, what am I going to do?
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GEIST: Good evening from New York.
As Americans prepare for this busy holiday travel week, “Inspire Magazine” is out with warnings. Here‘s a quote: “This strategy of attacking the enemy with smaller but more frequent operations is what some may refer to as the strategy of a thousand cuts. The aim is to bleed the enemy to death.”
Now, in case you don‘t subscribe, “Inspire Magazine” is the new glossy publication from al Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula, the terrorist group that took credit for the failed Detroit plane bomb last Christmas, carried out by the infamous underwear. Yes, “Inspire‘s” terrorist rhetoric is ugly, but if you don‘t my saying, the magazine holiday recipes on a budget really are not to be missed.
Now, al Qaeda strategy of a thousand cuts inspire the Transportation Safety Administration to beef up its security with the more aggressive pat downs that have stirred outrage among airline travelers and stirred comedy among “Saturday Night Live” writers.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Feeling lonely this holiday season?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Looking for a little human interaction?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you want to feel contact in certain special places?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Then why not go through security at an airport?
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The TSA.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: TSA agents are ready and standing by to give you a little something extra to feel thankful about this holiday season.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The TSA.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you waiting for? I want to check under your testicles.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GEIST: The intense media scrutiny has forced our highest ranking government officials to answer some very uncomfortable questions.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CLINTON: I understand how difficult it is and how offensive it must be for the people going through it.
SCHIEFFER: Now, final question, my time is up. But would you submit to one of these pat downs?
CLINTON: Not if I—not if I could avoid it. No. I mean, who would?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GEIST: Secretary Clinton might not like the idea, but her boss says the occasional pat downs are the best way we have to stop the threat of another underwear attack.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: TSA, in consultation with our counterterrorism experts, have indicated to me that the procedures they have been putting in place are the only ones right now that they consider to be effective against the kind of threat that we saw in the Christmas Day bombing.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GEIST: So, how big a problem is this really and how much privacy are Americans willing to give up in the name of security?
Joining me now are: Thomas Sawyer, a retired teacher and bladder cancer survivor who has become the face of the anti-pat-down movement after he was humiliated during a TSA screening a couple of weeks ago.
Also with us tonight, Rob McNeil, a transportation security officer and local president of the American Federation of Government Employees covering airports in Rhode Island and Connecticut.
Gentlemen, thank you both for joining me.
Thomas, let‘s begin with you.
THOMAS SAWYER, BLADDER CANCER SURVIVOR: Thank you.
GEIST: You experienced an enhanced pat down at the hands of a TSA officer while traveling through Detroit earlier this month. Walk us through, if you don‘t mind, exactly what happened on that day.
SAWYER: I‘ll give you the short version. I was traveling from Detroit, Michigan, to Orlando Florida, and I hadn‘t flown in a year. And Detroit has the new X-ray machine and that‘s what I went through. And evidently, at that time, they saw my urostomy bag, because I‘ve had bladder cancer and had to have the bladder removed because the malignancy was high grade.
I now have a bag similar to this on my—down by my belt line. And I was immediately informed by TSA that I would be patted down. And I asked for a private room, please. And we went to a private room.
And when we got in the private room, the first thing they asked was to take my sweatshirt off, and I did. When I took my sweatshirt off, my t-shirt came up with it. And my urostomy bag showed underneath my T-shirt. The TSA agent who was doing the talking said, what is that? And I said that‘s a urostomy bag. And he said, never—I don‘t know what that is.
And I said, well, I have some medical issues that I need to tell you about. And he said no, that‘s OK. And I said no, I really do need to tell you about some medical issues. And he said no, really, you don‘t need to that. And I said, no, I really do need to do that. And he started telling me about the procedure of the pat down, how it was going to go.
So, I never really got a chance to tell him about my urostomy. So, I just thought, well, I kind of felt like inside, he‘s in power, I‘m not. Let‘s just get it over with.
And so, I just listened, kind of. He started the pat down. When we got to the chest portion, he used his open hand to slowly start moving down my chest rather firmly. And I realized he was getting down close to where my urostomy bag was.
And I said to him, you need to stop for a minute. One, you need to go slower. And two, you need to go a lot lighter because what‘s going to happen, you‘re going to catch your palm in the wafer and rip it off, so can you go a little slower? And he didn‘t. He didn‘t go slower and he didn‘t go more gently. I asked him to do both.
And sure enough, he got down to here. And because I only had my t-shirt on, because he asked me to take my sweatshirt off, his hand slipped between the wafer that goes on my stomach and the seal that the urine is collected in and it opened it up just enough that urine came out on my clothes and then started dribbling down on my leg, on my shorts.
GEIST: And, Mr. Sawyer, what happened from there? I know you ended up actually having to get on your flight in that condition. Tell us about the rest of your day.
SAWYER: A little bit more happened than that. I looked down immediately, I realized what had happened, and I looked down. I believe he looked down. I‘m not positive, but I believe he also looked down. And by that time, there was about a big of a stain already of urine.
And he had to go out of the office where they were patting me down in, where he was patting me down, and then checked his gloves, I‘m guessing, for explosives or chemicals on his blood—his gloves. And when he came back in, he said, you can go now.
And I was wondering why I had to go now, but never an apology. Never—are you OK? Do you need anything? Can we help you?
So, I tried to go to the bathroom in the terminal. But Detroit Metropolitan is a huge, huge terminal. And I just didn‘t know what to do.
So, I took off going to my terminal. And by the time I got to my terminal, we boarded in five minutes. I had to wait until the plane took off.
I always carry a backpack with me with extra supplies, extra clothes. And got into the private bathroom, got myself washed up, took off my soiled underwear, took off my soiled T-shirt and threw them in the bathroom trash can. I wasn‘t going to put them in my knapsack. And cleaned myself up the very best I could, put a new appliance on, went back and got on the plane until we arrived in Orlando.
GEIST: Rob McNeil, I want to bring you in here as the transportation security officer. We should point out that the head of TSA called Mr. Sawyer today to apologize.
I understand that almost all of these pat downs are carried out professionally and without incident. It‘s important to point that out. What‘s your response as you listen to Mr. Sawyer‘s story?
ROB MCNEIL, TRANSPORTATION SECURITY OFFICER: To Mr. Sawyer‘s story, my response, I really cannot respond to that, because I don‘t have firsthand knowledge of the incident.
GEIST: Well, we take Mr. Sawyer at his words about the details of what happened. What do you think when you hear that?
MCNEIL: I think something probably went wrong with that. TSOs are trained how to deal with people with colostomy bags and other persons with disabilities, whatever disabilities that they would have had. And if a TSO probably would have had a question, he probably would have asked a supervisor.
GEIST: Well, I‘ve been saying all along, it‘s not like these men and women who work for the TSA are enjoying having to perform these pat downs. Nobody wants to, you know, grope middle aged businessmen on their way to conferences.
But tell us what you‘re hearing from your people, the TSA agents who are working under these new policies?
MCNEIL: Well, it‘s not a point of people enjoying what they are doing. What we‘re doing is we‘re trying to ensure people end up at their destination in a safe manner. We try to treat people with as much dignity and respect as we can to get that accomplished. One of the fears that TSOs have right now is—we‘re hearing stories of TSOs being assaulted, being insulted by people who they have to perform this on.
GEIST: And you‘re talking about the agents at the gate. You‘re getting reports of their being assaulted by passengers?
MCNEIL: The TSOs at the check.
GEIST: OK. And
MCNEIL: And they are performing the procedures, and also they are being insulted daily.
GEIST: As I said earlier, less than 2 percent of airline passengers are actually subjected to these pat downs despite all the noise. But given the attention it‘s gotten, Rob, do you think the TSA is going to have to back off this new policy?
MCNEIL: I don‘t think TSA is going to have to back off the new policy at all because just like when we implemented the liquids policy in 2007. At first, it was a shock to the system for everybody, but then after a while, the traveling public became more aware of the policy. And I think that‘s all it needs to become, is more media publication on a positive side of this.
GEIST: And, Thomas, you‘ve said you‘re not going public with this story to express anger, but really to encourage TSA to change this policy. So, what would you like to see done here?
SAWYER: Well, I take a lot of exceptions with what I just heard. I was nothing but polite. And I don‘t think that a trained TSA agent who I had to ask three times, could I tell you my medical history and refused to let me, I don‘t feel that‘s very dignified. And if that‘s the way they are being trained, there‘s something really wrong.
So, I take umbrage of that comment. That just has not what happened to me.
I never raised my voice. I don‘t advocate that anyone injure a TSA agent.
That‘s wrong, too.
But I was not treated in a dignified manner whatsoever by my two TSA agents. I did mean to say that.
When I—when I talked to the director today, I was really glad that John called me. We had a good conversation. He asked me what I thought should be done. I really believe that more training needs to be done.
My two agents did not know what an ostomy was and said so. And I can‘t really believe in my heart that it just happened, that I went to Detroit Metro and I found the one agent in the United States that hasn‘t been taught what the word urostomy means. And that immediately clicked him in to know, oh, that, I know what that is, I know where it‘s at, I know what might happen.
I just really have some problems with the other gentleman‘s explanation.
And it‘s not compatible with the explanation I got with the director today.
SAWYER: Rob McNeil, a lot of people saying there‘s got to be a better way than these pat downs. You study this stuff for a living. Is there a better way that these scanners, number one, and the pat downs, number two?
MCNEIL: No. At the present time, there isn‘t a better way. And like Mr. Sawyer says, the train—I believe what Mr. Sawyer said, and I don‘t believe he was treated with dignity. But the TSOs for the most part are all professional. They do know—they do know how to handle the situation. And it‘s just going to take a little bit of time for everybody to get on the same page with this.
GEIST: All right. Let‘s hope they do.
MCNEIL: The traveling public and the TSOs.
GEIST: Rob McNeil, Thomas Sawyer—thank you both for your time tonight.
We really appreciate it.
SAWYER: Thank you.
MCNEIL: Thank you.
GEIST: Well, if it already feels like the holidays, that‘s because tonight is Sarah Palin‘s new book eve. Coming up: what is motivating her on this relentless media blitz? Does she really want to be president or is she doing it all for the money?
And the GOP on Capitol Hill—with the balance of power shifting soon, is there any chance in hell these people in Washington actually will work together, or will Republicans play four corners and hold the ball for the next two years? Democratic Congressman Chris Van Hollen is tonight‘s LAST WORD.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GEIST: The Sarah Palin problem for the GOP. She‘s on top in a new poll to win the Republican nomination for president. But if she becomes the nominee, that same poll shows she loses big to Obama in the general. So, what‘s a party to do?
And later, the dire warning that we should expect even less from our government, if that‘s possible, over the next two years. That and Russell Simmons ahead on THE LAST WORD.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GEIST: Nearly 5 million people watched the premier of her TLC show and now, millions more will head to bookstores tomorrow to buy a copy of Sarah Palin‘s new book, “America by Heart: Reflections on Family, Faith and Flag.”
The former Alaskan government begins her 16-stop book tour which will skip over New York, Washington, D.C., California, and other points in non-real America. Palin will make two stops, though, in Iowa, fueling speculation that she‘s laying the groundwork for a presidential run.
The Quinnipiac poll released today shows Palin ahead of the potential Republican primary field. Today, she‘d be the GOP pick with 19 percent of the vote, narrowly edging out Mitt Romney, Mike Huckabee and Newt Gingrich.
But some in the Republicans, not quite as excited about the prospect of a Palin candidacy.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY KING, CNN HOST: What‘s your read about Sarah Palin?
BARBARA BUSH, FORMER FIRST LADY: Well, I sat next to her once, thought she was beautiful, and I think she‘s very happy in Alaska. And I hope she‘ll stay there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GEIST: The former first lady, Barbara Bush, suggesting there that Sarah Palin should just stay put in Alaska.
Joining me now: former speechwriter for George W. Bush, journalist David Frum; and White House correspondent for “Politics Daily,” here with me in New York, Alex Wagner.
Thank you both for joining me.
David, let‘s begin with you.
She‘s got the TV show. She‘s got the book out tomorrow. She got her daughter out in front of 20 million people a week on “Dancing with the Stars.” What is Sarah Palin up to here?
DAVID FRUM, FORMER BUSH SPEECHWRITER: Well, she‘s running for president. I don‘t think it‘s right to suggest that people go through this long thought process and then they press the “go” switch. It‘s more that they press the “stop” switch if they decide not to go. You put in all the predicates and there are a lot of opportunities along the way to exit with dignity, but this is—this is the buildup for a run.
GEIST: And you‘ve been very critical of her from the beginning, David, saying what‘s good for Palin is not what‘s good for the party or what‘s good for the country. Why do you think it would be such a bad idea for her to run?
FRUM: Well, Republicans have to worry in 2012. It‘s going to be tough—it‘s going to be a heavy lift to defeat an incumbent president. That‘s always true.
But if you lose badly, you can do damage not only at the top of the ticket, where the presidential candidates are, but down the ticket.
2012, for example, should be a good Republican year in the U.S. Senate.
The class of 2006 where Democrats did so well, they are up for re-election. There should be a lot of opportunities to take the Senate, if there‘s a strong candidate on the top of the ticket, even if they were to lose narrowly. But if there‘s a weak candidate on the top of the ticket, you could do some very bad things.
You also have to worry about the long-term image of the party. The Republican Party is going to have to be a party relevant to the Americans in 2020s, in 2030s, in 2040s. If you form an image now that is exclusive and divisive, that can have very negative consequences down the road.
Plus, we want to win—and that means we want to offer the country a good conservative president, who can really do a good job governing the country.
GEIST: All right. Alex, let‘s take a look at this clip from the TV show that you and I were talking about earlier. This is from Sunday‘s episode of “Sarah Palin‘s Alaska” where she flat-out beats the holy hell out of a halibut.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There you go.
SARAH PALIN ®, FORMER ALASKA GOVERNOR: I was proud of Bristol. She got that Billy club and she started stunning those fish. I was looking at her out of the corner of my eye thinking I wonder what she‘s picturing as she‘s making her mark there on those fish.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I love it.
PALIN: I wasn‘t going to hesitate either especially when the fish were piling up and they‘re slapping around.
They could do some damage here. We need to calm these boys down real quick.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GEIST: Got to calm these boys down, Alex. Now, you and I know that‘s how you subdue a halibut once it‘s on board.
ALEX WAGNER, POLITICS DAILY: Yes.
GEIST: Some people watching that may not think it‘s terribly presidential.
WAGNER: Presidential.
GEIST: Yes.
WAGNER: Yes, it‘s sort of mama—killer orca more than it is mama grizzly. I think the thing about the reality TV show and Sarah Palin is it‘s absolutely an attempt to humanize her on the national stage. And I think to a certain degree it works. I mean, she‘s definitely—she‘s tough. And I think she puts her money where her mouth is, as far as being, you know, part of the Alaskan wilderness and a great frontiers woman.
But at the same time, someone pointed this out to me. There‘s a level of sort of recreating that the Palins do that Americans don‘t do. I mean, effectively, they are on vacation all the time. They‘re climbing glaciers. They‘re, you know, catching salmons. They‘re clubbing halibuts to death.
This is not what Joe—John Q. Public and his wife do. And so, as far as connecting with the American public on that level, I‘m not sure that it actually happens.
GEIST: And do you think this even—I mean, we say it doesn‘t look presidential. She doesn‘t care. This builds her brand further. This is what she does, right?
WAGNER: Absolutely. I mean, Sarah Palin has proven herself to be very unconventional. You know, most in theory running for office engage with the lame stream media. Sarah Palin has communicated largely by Facebook, Twitter and conservative media, and it‘s worked great for her.
So, I‘m not sure she‘s as hindered by the classic, you know, prerequisites for a presidential nominee.
GEIST: David, Sarah Palin was on FOX just a little while ago and said her husband, the first dude, is leaning towards a White House run. She didn‘t say she was, but said the first dude was interested in it.
A couple of interesting polls out today from Quinnipiac, how Palin would do versus Obama. You say she can‘t win. This poll suggests you may be right -- with Obama in this hypothetical, up eight points.
Any chance that changes over the course of two years, whether—if unemployment stays high, can she close that gap?
FRUM: Look, it doesn‘t really matter what I think. I mean, I‘m one man‘s opinion. I think the more relevant thing, the thing that is going to form the story, is the people—the Republican Party, like the Democratic Party, we‘re very committed to the party, the donors, the chairman of state parties. These people form what we call, for lack of a better term, a party establishment. And they terrified of this candidacy.
The big money donors, the people who do the work, the people who are going to be important in the Republican Party weren‘t important 10 years ago, will be important 10 years from now. And we are beginning to see—just coming above the surface, some of the intense work that is being done. Barbara Bush expressed it, to rescue the party from what a lot of people, not just me, see as a big problem.
That is going to be a back story over the next two years, as that group of people looks around and says who can do the job of being a better representative what the party has to say, being a better president, but also winning in Iowa, winning in New Hampshire. These decisions are not made by aggregated polls. They‘re made place to place to place.
GEIST: Alex, she‘s talking about something. You hear it, David hears it, I hear it privately. Republicans—establishment Republicans do not want her to run.
Why are they so scared to say this out loud, that they don‘t want to offend Sarah Palin‘s base?
WAGNER: They are worried they‘re going to be like halibut. She‘s going to just—I think, look, I mean, Karl Rove has been vocal about his objections to Sarah Palin. You know, but that said, there is the enthusiasm and the fact that she has captured the national imagination and is an incredibly compelling figure regardless of whether you like her or not. I mean, we‘re talking about her. We talk about her all the time. And enthusiasm and energy is a big selling point, I think, for the GOP.
I wouldn‘t say to those Quinnipiac polls, you know, take that with a grain of salt. According to a CBS poll last week, 48 percent of Americans do not know that the Republicans won the House. I mean, there is a processing gap between what happens in Washington and where the rest of the country is.
GEIST: All right, Alex, we‘ll let you go. I know you‘re going to camp out to pick up a copy of the book.
WAGNER: I am.
GEIST: All right, Alex, thanks so much.
David Frum in Washington—appreciate your being with us tonight. Thanks.
FRUM: Thank you.
GEIST: Sarah Palin has some reality show competition from music mogul Russell Simmons. Does Russell have begrudging respect for Palin‘s promotion? He joins us in the spotlight tonight.
And “SNL” took aim at Nancy Pelosi for staying put in her leadership position after the Democrats midterm wipeout. Congressman Chris Van Hollen reacts to the skit and tells us why Pelosi is still the right face for his party.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GEIST: Still ahead on THE LAST WORD, “Running Russell Simmons.” The hip-hop mogul has his own reality show, he‘ll join us to bring some desperately needed cool to the world of cable news. And he‘ll talk about his Palin-based reality competition. Also, Tom Brokaw goes high-tech to learn the ropes at Facebook. Tom joins us with the look at the company that is changing the world.
And a programming note tomorrow, we‘ll be joined by Chad Condit, son of Gary Condit. Today, the long legal saga over who killed Chandra Levy came to a close with the guilty verdict for a man in El Salvador. And an exclusive interview of convict son about the vindication of his father, that‘s tomorrow on THE LAST WORD.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GEIST: You know, I‘ve found that when you‘re a hip-hop pioneer, a fashion mogul, a producer of both television and film, an entrepreneur and a philanthropist, you need a lot of good help around the office. That‘s the idea of the new Oxygen show, “Running Russell Simmons.” Unfortunately, like any work place, you don‘t always end up with the best interns.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SAGEN: I nearly died when I saw T.I. He‘s even hotter in person.
(MUSIC PLAYING)
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Sagen, don‘t stand back there.
SAGEN: Yes.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GEIST: We don‘t have interns like that around here, Russell. The clients though can be a problem, too. On tomorrow night‘s episode, Courtney Love stops by for a little career advice.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Young people. Really young.
COURTNEY LOVE, ACTRESS/MUSICIAN: Yes. I know, we need young people. I want a crew in front of me, so I can be like Diddy and come in and come out.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: That‘s good.
LOVE: I‘m good at mentoring girls. That‘s my strength.
UNIDENTIFIED WOMAN: Let me ask you a question.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I want to make you look good. I want to make you look as good as you can look.
LOVE: Will I get paid?
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: No, you don‘t get paid.
LOVE: You want to find me a husband?
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: I work on that. That will be my part time job.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GEIST: Will I get paid? And our spotlight tonight, Russell Simmons, star of that reality show, “Running Russell Simons” on Oxygen, Oxygen as we should point owned by our parent company, NBC Universal. Russell, great to see you.
RUSSELL SIMMONS, CO-FOUNDER, DEF JAM AND PHAT FARM: Nice to see you.
GEIST: How did you handle Courtney Love there? What advice did you gave her?
SIMMONS: Well, she has a reality show idea. It‘s kind of interesting, and my assistance, I‘m in-loved with it. And we thought we‘d produce it. We still might, you know, we‘re talking a lot about it.
GEIST: Why let the reality cameras follow you around? You‘re busy guy, you got a lot going on with your life.
SIMMONS: It‘s a good branding exercise. I mean, I run five charities, I have lots of philanthropic, social, semi-political kind of action that I think help people. The show, although you see fun parts. The show is about the gay rights, animal rights, the anti-war, all the dialogue that I have and all this social action I take is on my show. And so, I think it‘s kind of a good vehicle for that. I notice that Courtney Love had more—not Courtney Love, I‘m sorry, Kim Kardashian had more twitter followers than the president.
GEIST: Yes.
SIMMONS: I sent her to my school in Africa. I‘m a grateful lot of money because of her. And I think that kind of access to young people is powerful.
GEIST: So, you think reality TV, because there‘s been so much analysis of our media culture, is it good for us? Some people point to it as the end of western civilization.
(CROSSTALK)
SIMMONS: Again, the first show we had, it‘s fun but still has lots of good work. We talked about Sierra Leone and a lack of good health care there and we‘ve raised $400,000. We had 200 supermodels come to my house. And then we raised the $400,000, a hundred men came and they paid the money.
GEIST: Yes, they did.
SIMMONS: We‘re building an entirely—and the second show is about Simone, my assistant, who is the animal rights activist, and she does this big protest. And it was really international media but nothing was bigger than having her do it on television. And the third show, all the shows have philanthropic, social or political applications and also business. So, it‘s a fun exercise, it‘s a branding exercise. And I‘m having fun.
GEIST: As a guy who follows politics and business so closely, we were just talking in our last segment about Sarah Palin. I‘m curious what you think about—I know you don‘t agree with her politics. But do you have at least some kind of a begrudging respect for the way she‘s branded herself?
SIMMONS: I think she‘s done an excellent job of branding herself. You know, there‘s such divisive talk not only from her mouth but from the Tea Party. And she seems to be the face of the Tea Party today. And you know, as the chairman of the Foundation for Ethnic, I understand that all the works that I do with ethnic dialogues and religious dialogue, I find it really repulsive in America that we‘ve taken step back after so many years of going forward. I get the research. And the amount of Islamophobia, the amount of anti-Semitism, the amount on white on black. I mean, there‘s a lot of divisive talk that comes from the far right. And I think that she‘s kind of the face of it. And she also makes statements that are very hurtful and contribute to that kind of state where we‘re moving backwards regarding tolerance in all religion and race. And that‘s an issue for me.
GEIST: Do you worry about her politically? Do you think she can come out of the Republican Party, and we showed a poll out there that said, if the primary were held today, she would be the republican choice? Do you think she would give President Obama run for his money?
SIMMONS: You know, I really hope she‘s the choice. I mean, today, what we stand today, but, you know, things happen very quickly. You know, what happened in Germany, what happened in Rwanda, what happened in all the places where there‘s ethnic cleansing, or really horrible things have happen in history, it‘s happened in only a few years. And so we are at risk. But if it was today, I would hope that she was the candidate against President Obama.
GEIST: You‘ve been a big supporter of President Obama pretty much right out of the box when he announced his candidacy.
SIMMONS: Yes.
GEIST: How do you feel two years into his presidency now? Some people on the left that express disappointment? How do you feel?
SIMMONS: Can‘t do everything at once. I mean, we were losing 800,000 jobs a month when he took office. There was some—president reform was important to me because these kids were poisoning their community, they‘re going to jail for this eve, and coming home. He did some of that. Health care reform. He did some of that. Education reform. He did some of that. He didn‘t get to do everything I would like. He missed “Don‘t Ask, Don‘t Tell.” But he meant to make a lasting impression in that area. He seems to be, you know, as an animal rights activist, I supported him.
And he‘s made some statements and even done some work on this subject. So, he‘s doing a lot in a short amount of time. I think Americans are impatient. And I think there‘s still a lot of room for him to do more. But I think what he did was in a short time turn this country around. And I think people are comfortable now. And he‘s not the messiah, and so maybe they are little disappointed. But I think he‘s been pretty impressive considering, you know, the odds that have been against him.
GEIST: Were the expectations to unrealistic of the guy? I mean, he was going to be post partisan, he was going to heal the country. But things are more ideologically...
(CROSSTALK)
SIMMONS: The far right, in a way, I mean, just by his presence. And I think that‘s something that America has to deal with, not only because of the political but the social implications of this far right movement. You know, like Sarah Palin running, you know, and like some of the other Tea Party candidates, and some of the divisive talk. And I think that‘s America was built on his first amendment, you know, and one was religious freedom. And as a person who sees this research, what happened when 29 out of 30 community members voted to put that prayer room, prayer center, interfaith prayer center by Ground Zero.
And then within a few months what we were able to do, what the media has been able to do, to find a guy who‘s going to burn a book with 30 members of his congregation and create an international crisis. And he was the face of America and hate. That was done by the media. I‘m afraid of what could happen in a short amount of time. So, we have to watch it closely. And we have to make individuals make choices. You know, not to promote tolerance. And the more compassionate kind of country. You know, and that‘s my job and I think, you know, should be every Americans job.
GEIST: Well, you got a lot of jobs. So, we‘re glad you‘re here with us tonight, philanthropist, media mogul, now TV star, the show is “Running Russell Simmons,” he‘s doing big ratings, Tuesday nights on Oxygen. Check it out. Russell, thanks so much.
SIMMONS: Thank you.
GEIST: Good to see you.
Coming up next, as Representative Boehner prepares to become speaker of the House, Paul Krugman says, things in D.C. are only going to go from bad to much, much worse. Democratic Congressman Chris Van Hollen will get tonight‘s last word on how he plans to try to work with the GOP.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GEIST: SNL made a joke of the democratic leadership on Capitol Hill. So, after the pasting the Democrats took in the midterms, why is Nancy Pelosi still calling the shots? We‘ll talk with Democratic Congressman Chris Van Hollen.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GEIST: The man credited with inventing the World Wide Web, no, not Al Gore. He never actually said that now. So, Tim Berners-Lee is the MIT computer scientist who pioneered the internet, and he is now warning us that social networks actually are a threat to cyberspace. Sir Tim says, sites like Facebook encourage people to wall themselves in from the rest of the Web. He says that defeats the old purpose of the internet. NBC‘s Tom Brokaw takes us inside Facebook now, the least exclusive gated community in the world.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
TOM BROKAW, NBC ANCHOR (voice-over): Social network, the idea began as a college stunt, but quickly went beyond the campus, around the world and across generations.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: This cannot be happening.
BROKAW (on camera): Well, it finally happened. Your mom is on Facebook.
(voice-over): And Chief Operating Officer Carol Sandberg couldn‘t be happier.
CAROL SANDBERG, FACEBOOK CHIEF OPERATING OFFICER: I think Facebook is actually more valuable as you get older. You think about as you get older, you‘ve interacted with more people, maybe, you‘ve lived in more places, you‘ve had more jobs, maybe your kids and grandkids, there are just more people to keep in touch with.
BROKAW: Sandberg joined Facebook at March, 2008 from Google where she sent advertising revenue into the stratosphere. A former whiz kid, now 41, a Harvard MBA, and a veteran of the World Bank and Treasury Department, Sandberg arrived at Facebook to a new personal reality.
SANDBERG: I had been there for about a month and someone called me middle aged in a meeting. It was an incredible meeting, I‘m at the meeting and there‘s a group of people at the table. And this guy Alex says, we have to take into account all user demographics in this launch including, maybe he‘s handed me, the middle aged demographic. And I don‘t know who he was waving at but I think that‘s the time that I definitely was bringing a new approach.
BROKAW (on camera): You think Facebook will mean that in the future, will have virtual college and high school reunions and not real reunions where we go together and tell the old stories all over again.
SANDBERG: The barriers of time and geography become more and more important in our lives particularly I think as you get older. And Facebook breaks down those barriers.
BROKAW (voice-over): And it‘s pretty easy to find folks on Facebook doing just that.
SANDBERG: So, this is a page created by a group of people who went to high school. This same page is dedicated to those of us who grew up along Bird Road Corridor back in the ‘50s, ‘60s and ‘70s.
BROKAW: Vicky Allen Gaskow (ph) lives in Las Vegas, a long way in time and distance from the Miami of her childhood.
VICKY ALLEN GASKOW (ph), FACEBOOK MEMBER: We all grew up in the same neighborhood. And we found each other again on Facebook.
BROKAW: But like nearly 5,000 others on Facebook, she relived the days of Bird Road.
GASKOW: It‘s a repository of memories. It makes me feel connected. I‘m home. I go on that site and I‘m home. What‘s really important...
BROKAW: Not everyone of a certain age is so enthusiastic.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Why should Justice O‘Connor be on Facebook?
SANDRA DAY O‘CONNOR, ASSOCIATE JUSTICE OF THE U.S. SUPREME COURT: I‘m not.
Heaven help us.
BROKAW: And a Stanford symposium on aging, Sandberg made her case on social networking to her own.
SANDBERG: Even people as famous as Justice O‘Connor can be on Facebook.
UNIDENTIFIED MAN: Why would you resist it, Justice O‘Connor?
O‘CONNOR: Oh, I don‘t need any more publicity, even on Facebook.
(APPLAUSE)
BROKAW (on camera): Really, Justice O‘Connor does not want to go on Facebook as we heard in that exchange but she did acknowledge that she uses Skype to communicate with her grandchildren. Your parents of course, don‘t need to use Skype, they can find you morning, noon and night right here.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
GEIST: Tom, thanks. Yes, I live in this studio. Tom Brokaw. So, how lame will be the lame duck session of Congress be? Fights are building over the Bush tax cuts, the START Treaty, a nuclear arms and Don‘t Ask, Don‘t Tell. Democratic Congressman Chris Van Hollen gets tonight‘s last word.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
GEIST: There is a rather long to do list for the lame duck session of Congress, the biggest fight likely to be over the Bush tax cuts and the START Treaty that Republicans and both the House and Senate don‘t appear terribly eager to cooperate between now and January or perhaps even beyond. I spoke earlier with Democratic Congressman Chris Van Hollen of Maryland, the man who will head up his party‘s effort to work with Republicans on the daunting issue of the budget.
Congressman Van Hollen, thanks so much for joining us.
REP. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D), MARYLAND: It‘s good to be with you. And congratulations on your new book.
GEIST: Well, thank you. I appreciate it very much. Let‘s talk about what happened a couple of weeks ago, you as head of the Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee, of course, your party losing the house and losing some seats in the Senate as well. I want to ask about the new reality in Washington for you. In today‘s “New York Times,” Paul Krugman wrote this, “One of our two great political parties has made it clear that it has no interest in making America governable, unless it‘s doing the governing. And that party now controls one House of Congress which means the country will not in fact be governable without that party‘s cooperation, cooperation that will not be forth coming. Elite opinion has been slow to recognize this reality. Congressman Van Hollen, how bleak are things going to be over the next two years? Any chance you two parties can get together?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, I have some worries, Willie, because for the first time, the Republicans now share some responsibility for helping to clean up the mess that was largely created by their own policies and yet every indication so far is that they do not want to work with the president. They don‘t want to work with the Democrats. The president invited them all down to the White House, the new republican leadership right after the election. They said, no, sorry. We‘ve got other things to do. They are working hard to try and block the new START Treaty, which our NATO allies on a bipartisan basis, national security experts say is important for our security. They are trying to hold middle class taxes, tax relief, hostage to tax breaks for folks at the top. So, by every single they are sending, they seem not to have heard what I think most of us believe the voters have said, which was we want you guys to work together to try and get the economy back on track and put people back to work.
GEIST: If what you‘re saying is true, Congressman, you might now have one of the worst jobs in Washington as the ranking democrat on the House Budget Committee where a lot of the fighting is going to be done. Let‘s talk now about the Bush tax cuts. Will it be picked up in the lame duck session? You said previously on “Meet the Press,” the idea that tax cuts for the rich create jobs as, quote, “nonsense.” But now lately you‘ve showed a little bit of willingness at least, to perhaps, compromise. How does this shake out?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, I think it‘s clear that the tax cuts for the folks at the very top have not created any jobs. After all, we‘ve had them in place now for more than eight years. And we know what the jobs situation is. So, the notion that you‘ve got to continue them in order to somehow boost the economy when those are in place right now and we have a lot of people unemployed, is a clear indication that they are not a big job creator.
GEIST: Will you vote, Congressman for at least a temporary extension of those tax cuts for the wealthy, an idea that you previously called nonsense?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, what I declared nonsense was the notion that providing tax breaks for those at the top was necessary to keep the economy going. I also think it‘s important for the economy that we provide middle class tax relief for 98 percent of the American people. I hope that we will decouple these two things. I think we should send a strong signal that we‘re not going to allow our republican colleagues to literally hold middle class hostage to providing these tax breaks for the folks at the top, which is why in the House, we are going to decouple them. We‘re going to say, we‘re going to provide tax relief for middle class Americans and that will be the step that we take.
GEIST: Congressman, you‘ve been a close ally with Speaker Pelosi in the House, Democrats though being hammered not just from the right but some on the left for keeping the same leadership in place after the midterm elections. The message was so clear. I want to play you this clip. It was even a punch line on SNL over the weekend. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This week you held off a challenge within your own party for your own leadership position. Does that bother you?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nothing bothers me, Rachel. That‘s why I always have the same expression.
(LAUGHTER)
But I want to assure my enemies that it will take more than one election to take me down. If you want to get rid of Nancy Pelosi, you better be ready to cut off my head and bury it separately from my body.
(LAUGHTER)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Nancy Pelosi, a woman who always look like she‘s watching someone not use a coaster.
(LAUGHTER)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
GEIST: OK. Cutting the head of the body notwithstanding, Congressman, isn‘t it time, as so many have said, for a little new blood? Is this really what change looks like? Were lessons learned from the midterm elections?
VAN HOLLEN: Well, Willie, the midterm elections were about nine-and-a-half percent unemployment. The fact of the matter is, no matter who was speaker of the house, no matter who was president at the time, when you‘ve got people out of work and hurting, they are going to send a message. And in this case, they sent a message that the recovery had not moved fast enough. And we agree with that. We were the party in power. We were held accountable. But anybody who thinks that, you know, Nancy Pelosi is going to be the issue over the next couple of years rather than the economy and the presidential election doesn‘t understand American politics.
The fact of the matter is, we‘re very quickly going to move to a debate over our priorities, how we‘re going to get people back to work. And I think our republican colleagues run a big risk in thinking that this election was about repealing health care reform which they now say is going to be, you know, their first order of business, and repealing Wall Street reform and essentially putting back in charge the special interests who ran the show for a very long time in Washington. So, the next election is going to be about how we move our country forward, President Obama‘s leadership, and whoever the republican nominee for president will be.
GEIST: All right. Congressman Chris Van Hollen, democrat of Maryland, wish you the best of luck on that Budget Committee. Thanks so much for being with us tonight.
VAN HOLLEN: Thank you.
GEIST: And that is tonight‘s last word, you can follow the show on msnbc.com, Facebook and twitter. Can you follow me if you have some sort of a sleep disorder tomorrow morning on way too early and then on “MORNING JOE.” The party starts right in this very studio at 5:00 a.m. Eastern. If you‘re out in the west coast, I do encourage you to just keep drinking until we go on live at 2:30 a.m. Pacific Time. In the meantime, I‘m just going to go curl up in the corner over there on the cot Dave laid out for me. I spent my days and my nights here. “COUNTDOWN” is next.
END
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