Guests: Michael Crowley, Richard Wolffe
JOE SCARBOROUGH, HOST: Tonight: Britney escapes rehab again. And did she shave her head to beat a drug test? And how much that haircut could actually end up costing her. We‘re going to be talking about that straight ahead.
But first: The news out of Iraq keeps getting grimmer by the day, with a U.S. helicopter being shot down over Iraq, suicide bombers killing dozens in Najaf, and a U.S. soldier admitting that he raped a 14-year-old Iraqi girl while her family of five were shot in the head. The girl, who knew that her mother, father, brother and sisters were being killed as she got raped, cried uncontrollably until she, too, was shot. The soldiers then poured kerosene over her body and set her on fire.
And as the horrors of Iraq accumulate by the day, it‘s becoming all too much for the British to take. They‘re beginning a rapid drawdown just as Prince Harry is set to land in that troubled war zone. And despite the hellish conditions and the rapid retreat of our most steadfast ally, the White House is spinning wildly, suggesting that the Brits‘ retreat is actually a sign of progress.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
RICHARD CHENEY, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I look at it, and what I see is an affirmation of the fact that there are parts of the Iraq where things are going pretty well.
TOM CASEY, DEPUTY SPOKESMAN, BUREAU OF PUBLIC AFFAIRS: ... indicative of some of the success that‘s actually been achieved.
CONDOLEEZZA RICE, SECRETARY OF STATE: The coalition remains intact. The British have been terrific and have done what is really the plan for the country as a whole.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: Well, as the British retreat, the United States is ramping up, and the vice president promises American troops will, quote, “return with honor.” Is this White House growing more determined or more delusional?
Here to talk about it, we have Richard Wolffe, “Newsweek” senior White House correspondent. We also have MSNBC political analyst Pat Buchanan, and Michael Crowley. He‘s senior editor for “The New Republic.”
Richard Wolffe, the news from Iraq could hardly be much worse. How does this White House actually spin that the British retreat is anything other than bad news? I mean, they can‘t even believe that spin, can they?
RICHARD WOLFFE, “NEWSWEEK”: Well, if they believe it, they‘re not listening to the Brits, who have an incredibly gloomy view about what Iraq is going to look like. Look, this is obviously the opposite of a surge, this British movement. Every outside expert says the only reason the south is more stable than Baghdad is because, essentially, the Shia are in total control. You have a political solution in the south, where the Brits have been, and the Shia militias are in control.
So—look, the Brits are the first to say that they‘ve had it a lot easier than the Americans. Baghdad is a much more difficult situation. But their focus, both politically because the war is unpopular, and strategically is now on Afghanistan. That‘s where the thing the bigger terrorist threat comes from.
SCARBOROUGH: Michael Crowley, the British were Mr. Bush‘s best ally, and the suicide bombing is in the Shia area in the south, where they patrolled. Isn‘t this terrible political news for George W. Bush? And this White House is claiming this is just proof that we‘re making great progress in Iraq.
MICHAEL CROWLEY, “THE NEW REPUBLIC”: Absolutely, Joe. And it‘s coming at a time when the White House is trying to fend off this rising wave of opinion in the Congress and throughout the country that it‘s time to get out, that it‘s time to withdraw. And they‘re saying, No, now time is the time to double down, go with the surge, come in stronger.
Well, whoops, all of a sudden, our closest partners are doing the opposite. They‘re going in the other direction. I mean, you know, you sort of notice that the White House isn‘t saying that Tony Blair is “cutting and running” or, you know, handing a victory to our enemies, but I‘m sure it‘s got to really frustrate them. Everyone knows we don‘t have enough troops.
And I think it‘s terrible for the administration right now. At a time when they‘re telling the Congress, This is no time to lose resolve, we‘ve got to hang in there, we‘ve got to give the surge a chance, to see the British pulling up stakes and leaving is really bad news for them.
SCARBOROUGH: You know, Pat Buchanan, let me show you what Ted Kennedy had to say about the news coming out of Great Britain. The quote is, “No matter how the White House tries to spin it, the British government‘s decided to split with President Bush. This should be a wake-up call to the administration.”
Pat, I mean, the White House can‘t spin this as anything other than bad news, can they?
PAT BUCHANAN, MSNBC POLITICAL ANALYST: I don‘t see how you can, Joe. You can make explanations that this is the area of the Shia south, which is pretty much pacified because the Shia have taken it over and they‘re ethnically cleansing the Sunni.
But the truth is, not only the Brits but the Danes, the Lithuanians, this year the South Koreans, they‘re all following the Spanish and the Italians out of Iraq. There‘s nobody putting troops in but the United States of America. This is going to be America‘s war. The Brits are getting out of the south, too. I think the know because if there‘s a dust-up with the Iranians, that‘s right there in the path. So I don‘t see you can spin this other than the fact that the Brits see the Americans want to come home and they want to get out first.
SCARBOROUGH: And these are the people, of course, we‘re showing right now, the coalition of the not so willing, that are getting out of there. Pat Buchanan, though, what‘s offensive to so many Americans is the fact that the United States has become the world‘s 911, the globocop, as you called us last night. Everybody else is leaving, and yet the United States is pouring in more troops. Has it come to that?
BUCHANAN: Well, you know, Joe, this is—this is even much larger than that. I generally think that Europe is finished. I think NATO is having a hellish time in Afghanistan. A number of them, like the Germans, won‘t fight and won‘t go south (ph). The Brits are fighting there and the Canadians are, but they‘re smaller contingents.
And no country in Europe, I think, is really willing to go into this arc of crisis, as Brzezinski calls it, and to fight anymore. Their empires are gone. They‘ve gone home. Their militaries have been downsized. NATO has become basically, you know, a nursing home with an American pledge to come...
SCARBOROUGH: And you know, Pat...
BUCHANAN: ... and help anybody who‘s in trouble.
SCARBOROUGH: You know, Pat, you remember back, I guess it was in the 1980s, Kennedy—Paul Kennedy, I think it was, wrote “The Rise and Fall of Great Powers”...
BUCHANAN: “The Decline and Fall of the Great Powers,” yes.
SCARBOROUGH: ... “Decline and Fall of the Great Powers,” talked about empires led to the collapse of great powers and predicted the United States collapse. Of course, he got the wrong empire. It was the Soviets that ended up falling.
But do we find ourselves now 20, 25 years later, after that book was written, watching American troops basically getting bogged down in the Middle East? Do we see the fall of our so-called empire, that the United States is going to have to retreat strategically and basically just cover a few bases because we‘ve extended ourselves so much that we have gutted our military‘s readiness?
BUCHANAN: You know, you‘re—Joe, you are dead on. Look, you know, I‘m working on a book, quite frankly, right now, which is about the end of Pax Americana and the end of the American century. We got 500,000 men under arms in the Army, about 175,00 Marines. You can‘t defend and fight all over the world, in the Baltics, in the Balkans, the Middle East, in Korea and the Taiwan Straits.
We are completely overextended as an empire, and what we‘ve got to do right now is start getting rid of commitments all over the world and reduce the commitments that can be covered by our own strength (ph). I think this is the last American war in the whole Eurasian continent in our lifetime.
SCARBOROUGH: You know, Richard Wolffe, is the—are there people at the White House that you cover who understand what Pat Buchanan just said, that the United States is so badly overextended that its military is about as hollow as it‘s been since 1978, 1979, when Jimmy Carter was president, and we‘ve effectively stopped ourselves from being able to answer threats in North Korea, Iran, Pakistan, possibly Afghanistan down the road?
WOLFFE: What the White House would say is that they fully understand that the military is overextended, and that‘s why the president and the Joint Chiefs have come up with this plan to grow the size of the Army and the Marine Corps.
But Pat‘s idea that America is not going to be the major power in this region is—let‘s say it‘s premature. I mean, you‘ve been talking for weeks now about the Iranian threat here, and the administration would say if America withdraws from the Gulf, then you‘re going to see an arms race among these allies in the region, and there is a real prospect of a regional war. That‘s why they make the case that American forces have to stay to be there to hold the balance of power in the Persian Gulf.
SCARBOROUGH: Well, and Richard, I mean, Pat Buchanan‘s been making that argument for some time. But Michael Crowley, at some point, don‘t Americans say, OK, well, maybe there will be a regional war, but we‘ve given over 3,000 lives, we‘re coming up on a trillion dollars in a few years, if we continue to stay there as long as this White House wants to us stay there, if there‘s a regional war, we can‘t do anything to stop it?
WOLFFE: No, I think that‘s right. I mean, I think that‘s the view people have of what‘s happening in a smaller scale within Iraq right now, that there‘s a civil war that‘s happening on—you know, there are five different levels of conflict and factional clashes, and there‘s no way we can sort it out. And a regional war...
SCARBOROUGH: I mean, what can we...
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Let me ask, Michael, what can we do though—hold it. What can we do to stop a regional war? I mean, when I hear the Saudis talk about how if America leaves, boy, they‘re going to start getting involved in protecting the Sunnis in Iraq, my question is, Why the hell aren‘t the Saudis involved right there when we‘re over there? Why are they not our partner, trying to bring the Sunnis to the table so all of this ethnic cleansing stops, so all these bombings of the Shia stop, so we can move forward together in peace? What else could United States do? Haven‘t we given enough?
BUCHANAN: Well, let me say, Joe, look...
CROWLEY: I don‘t know that there is much more we can do, Joe, and that‘s the problem. And I think you have to assume every country in the region already has a hand in the game in Iraq when they‘re trying to aid their own side. There‘s just nothing more we—I mean, that‘s the problem. There is not that much more we can do.
SCARBOROUGH: Pat?
(CROSSTALK)
BUCHANAN: The problem is not air power or naval power. We‘ve got plenty of that. The problem is the size of the American army and the exhaustion of the American army and the fact it is broken, according to some generals. The point is, Joe, it is broken even though our casualties, our dead in Iraq and in Afghanistan combined don‘t equal the dead we had in the Philippine insurrection.
The point is, the American people are unwilling to shed the blood of their soldiers indefinitely in these guerrilla wars, these insurgencies. The will of the United States is no longer there. This isn‘t World War II, it‘s not Korea, it‘s not Vietnam.
SCARBOROUGH: Let‘s take a look at what Dick Cheney had to say about getting out of Iraq.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHENEY: Every member of our military can be certain that America will stay on the offensive in the war on terror, and I want you to know that the American people will not support a policy of retreat.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: And of course, Pat Buchanan, he also talks about returning with honor. As a guy that survived Vietnam in the Nixon White House, that sounds kind of familiar, doesn‘t it?
BUCHANAN: Well, Nixon said, yes, we‘re going to—we want to leave Vietnam with honor, peace with honor.
SCARBOROUGH: Peace with honor.
BUCHANAN: And when—well, he did get out, peace with honor, but it was two years later that Vietnam fell. But I‘m telling you, if and when the United States does get out of Iraq, I think the disaster, when it happens and when that collapses, will be much closer to the time we depart. As a matter of fact, I think it could happen while many Americans are still there. And I think this is what the administration fears and why they don‘t want to draw down forces below a certain critical level where they think that could happen.
SCARBOROUGH: And Richard Wolffe...
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Let me ask Richard. Richard, a lot of people have suggested this entire surge debate is about George W. Bush making sure that those troops don‘t come home while he‘s still president of the United States. He wants to pass it to John McCain or Hillary Clinton or Rudy Giuliani or Barack Obama, right?
WOLFFE: Look, he‘s steeped so far in this one that he has to try and make it work because to admit that it‘s not working is to admit that the whole thing has been a failure. Their big fear is that they‘re going to be present while there‘s a bloodbath on a much greater scale than we‘ve seen so far. And that‘s quite possible. There are serious experts who say that that could happen. And the nightmare prospect is that say he chooses some middle ground, American troops withdraw to barracks, pull out of Baghdad, and they‘re like Sabra and Shatila, just standing there, watching this thing happen from a distance. That‘s more of a nightmare or as much of a nightmare as the complete failure and withdrawal option.
What‘s interesting is hearing Cheney still hold onto the talking points that didn‘t work in the last elections. I mean, nobody in the White House who‘s seriously political believes that‘s a winning proposition in 2008.
BUCHANAN: I think that‘s exactly right, Joe. I think that—that nightmare scenario that the president talks about, it is the real fear hanging over this White House.
CROWLEY: But Joe, I honestly think...
SCARBOROUGH: But you know, the thing is, it sounds, though, Michael, though, like this White House doesn‘t want it to happen on their watch, but they‘re just pushing it off so it can happen on President McCain‘s watch or President Clinton‘s watch.
CROWLEY: Well, I hope that no president of the United States would be that cynical that he would just want to hand off a war, regardless of what he thought was the proper strategic course.
SCARBOROUGH: But do you think that‘s what‘s happening?
CROWLEY: Well, you know, my kind of pop psychology assessment of Bush is that on some level, he thinks the worse things get, the more he‘s being tested and the more he‘s got to stick it out and do the thing that everyone‘s telling him he shouldn‘t do. I mean, he seems to have this stubborn streak where he relishes going in the opposite direction. So in some bizarre way, the way the feedback loop is, the worse things get, the more he‘s got to hang in there and persevere and prove his critics wrong.
The problem is, I think he‘s just kind of out of touch with the reality and he‘s kind of passed the point of no return. So it may not be that he‘s looking to the next administration, it‘s just that he thinks he‘s got to hang in there, no matter how bad it gets, beyond the point where most people would say, All right, enough already.
BUCHANAN: Joe, I think he does see himself as Churchill in 1940.
SCARBOROUGH: I think he does, too.
CROWLEY: And every other great men in history, apparently, to judge by his public comments.
(LAUGHTER)
BUCHANAN: Lincoln in 1862!
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Not only—you know, Pat, I was going to say, not only does he see himself as Churchill in 1940, he sees himself as Truman in 1945. I mean, this guy‘s a man of the ‘40s, I guess.
Michael Crowley, Richard Wolffe, Pat Buchanan, thanks so much. Again, I got to underline here for everybody, I supported this war in the beginning. I supported this president. When you have the CIA director, when you have the intel agencies across the world saying Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction and he could use them on this country a year after 9/11, I think you have very little choice to go in there, especially when the United Nations votes 15 to nothing in the Security Council that Saddam Hussein has weapons of mass destruction.
But you know what? No matter how far down a path you‘re down, if it‘s the wrong path, you‘ve got to turn around, especially when American lives, American prestige, American power and military readiness is on the line. And that, my friends, it is. It‘s time to turn around.
Coming up next: What went wrong in a deadly police predator sting? “Dateline‘s” cameras show us a violent confrontation between a suspect and the police as it unfolds. NBC‘s Chris Hansen joins us next. And later...
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JUDGE LARRY SEIDLIN, BROWARD COUNTY DISTRICT COURT: When you went to a restaurant, who paid the check?
HOWARD K. STERN, ANNA NICOLE SMITH‘S ATTORNEY/LOVER: Anna paid for most things.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: More courtroom drama in the battle for Anna Nicole‘s decomposing body. Howard K. Stern admits that the former Playmate was his meal ticket as the three-ring circus of this trial continues.
Plus: Britney‘s on-again off-again affair with rehab is off again. Is it proof that she‘s past the point of no return? And the enormous financial hit she‘s going to take from her sudden shave. We‘re going to talk to former child star Danny Bonaduce about the addiction and growing up in the spotlight and go behind the scenes with Britney‘s bizarre life.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCARBOROUGH: “Dateline‘s” hidden camera sex sting took a deadly turn. The “Predator” series, of course, has traveled across the country for more than two years, helping local officials bust potential on-line sex predators with these undercover hidden-camera sex stings. But their latest stop in a Dallas suburb brought a turn of events they never could have expected.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
CHRIS HANSEN, “DATELINE NBC” (voice-over): We‘ve had doctors, teachers, even a rabbi show up during our investigations. But here in Murphy, Texas, just outside of Dallas, this is the first time we‘ve come across an assistant district attorney. Fifty-six-year-old Louis William Conradt, Jr., is a prosecutor in a neighboring county.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Whatever you‘d like to do.
HANSEN: He‘s been chatting on the phone with an actor hired by “Dateline” and on line with a decoy from Perverted Justice, and there‘s little doubt about what‘s on his mind.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He sent penis pictures.
HANSEN: “Frag (ph)” from Perverted Justice alerts police.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He got pretty sexual on the phone (INAUDIBLE).
We‘re chatting with him right now.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I‘d like to, if you let me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The phone number he gave is traced to his home phone.
HANSEN: Using the screen name INXS00 (ph), the 56-year-old chats with a boy who says he‘s 13. The prosecutor pretends to be a 19-year-old college student, sending these pictures of a young man who looks like a model. The decoy acts suspicious.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You‘re hot and in college. You can get all the guys you want. Why me?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: To me, you‘re hot.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I like younger.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really? Like for boyfriend or just sex?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Both.
HANSEN: Later, the prosecutor sends pornography to the decoy.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Is that your (DELETED)?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It looks huge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Please don‘t trade it, Luke, OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I swear.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: When do you want to come over?
HANSEN: Eventually, they talk about meeting in person.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You could bring some condoms. Maybe you could bring some beer.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: But Conradt never shows up. Still, in the eyes of the law, it makes no difference. In Texas, he‘s already committed a crime. Once the chief is certain he got‘s the right man, he takes his evidence to a local judge and gets an arrest warrant. He also decides to involve the police in Terrell, the town about 35 miles away where Conradt lives.
CHIEF BILLY MYRICK, MURPHY, TX, POLICE: We tried to make sure that because of who he was, that we took every precaution possible by contacting local authorities and the chief of the Terrell Police Department.
HANSEN: Myrick and his team meet the Terrell police officers at a gas station near Conradt‘s home to discuss what to do next. We go along to witness the arrest and possibly get a chance to speak to the prosecutor. This sergeant, who has known Conradt for more than 20 years, has been put in charge.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: One thing I didn‘t ask you, does this guy have any weapons?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I would have to say no to my knowledge right now.
That‘s all I can say.
HANSEN: As we mentioned earlier, because the prosecutor doesn‘t live in Murphy, Chief Myrick has turn over the job of arresting him to local police in Conradt‘s hometown of Terrell. A sergeant who‘s known the prosecutor for more than 20 years knocks on the door.
MYRICK: We really hoped as they knocked on the door that Mr. Conradt would peer out through the peephole, through the window, whatever, and he would see a face that he would recognize and that he would easily open the door and talk, and then we could approach at that time and say, This is why we‘re here.
HANSEN: But Conradt never comes to the door. The police, however, can tell that he‘s inside. They can see a TV and a computer are both on.
(on camera): So it appeared as though someone was right there a short while ago.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes. Maybe watching television, working at the computer at the same time.
HANSEN (voice-over): Since police suspect he‘s inside, refusing to answer the door, the Terrell police call for back-up.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We‘re on the phone (INAUDIBLE) team out to get (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We‘re apparently going to have a little bit of a
waiting period
(CROSSTALK)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put together the tactical team.
HANSEN: The police wait outside Conradt‘s home about 45 minutes until the tactical team arrives. There‘s still no sign of Conradt. The officers line up in formation and head to the back of the house. Then we hear a faint crack. The officers force their way in. For almost five minutes, we don‘t see or hear anything. Then Lt. Adena Barber (ph) of the Murphy Police Department comes out and tells us what happened.
LT. ADENA BARBER, MURPHY, TEXAS, POLICE: As they made entry, they confronted the suspect. I believe he was in the hallway. And he told them he wasn‘t going to hurt them and then shot himself in the head.
HANSEN (on camera): And he had a pistol in his hand?
BARBER: Small caliber.
HANSEN (voice-over): It was a devastating tragedy, a shock to all of us, when the 56-year-old, a man who has prosecuted criminals for more than two decades, shot himself. We watched as an emergency medical team arrived and hoped they could somehow save him. But as Conradt is brought out on a stretcher, it‘s clear his condition is grave. He is then air-lifted to Parkland Memorial Hospital in Dallas, where he later dies.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCARBOROUGH: And I talked to “Dateline‘s” Chris Hansen about this tragic turn of events, and this was his reaction to what unfolded that day.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
HANSEN: Well, it‘s awful, Joe, obviously, to have someone take their life under any circumstances. You know, clearly, everybody on the scene would have rather have had Bill Conradt tell his side of the story, and if necessary, have his day in court. But that‘s not the choice he made.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCARBOROUGH: No, it certainly wasn‘t. And make sure you catch “Dateline‘s” next “Predator” investigation Tuesday night, when they take their cameras to my home state, Florida.
And coming up: Oops, she left it again. Britney‘s second stint in rehab is over and done with. So can anyone or anything convince her to get the help she so desperately needs? And wait until you hear how much that haircut may actually cost her.
But first, Jay Leno shows us the latest hero to hit NBC‘s “Must See S.C.” It‘s coming up next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCARBOROUGH: Hey, it‘s tonight‘s “Must See S.C.,” some video you‘ve got to see.
First up, the characters on NBC‘s hit show “Heroes” have amazing super powers. You know that. Well, actually, they used to, anyway. Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Last time on “Heroes,” we introduced you to Watermelon Man, a seemingly ordinary person with an extraordinary ability. Now, get ready to meet his brother, Watermelon Dude.
Watermelon Man and Watermelon Dude team up to save the world, on the next “Heroes.”
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: See, I mean, I don‘t know. I‘m missing that.
Anyway, Jimmy Kimmel randomly bleeps out your favorite shows in another edition of “Unnecessary Censorship.” Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LAURA BUSH, FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: I had a red dress on, and three other people had the exact same red dress. It was a major (bleep) faux pas.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Besides washing their bodies, name something that people might do in the shower.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They (bleep).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They (bleep) in the shower. Of course they do.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
SCARBOROUGH: And coming up, Britney Spears out of rehab and headed for disaster. We‘re going to talk about the pop star‘s latest stint cut short yet again, with former child actor and recovering addict Danny Bonaduce.
And later, Anna Nicole‘s courtroom chaos, from her mother‘s meltdown to the judge‘s hi-jinx. I‘m out of order; you‘re out of order; this whole courtroom is out of order!
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(NEWSBREAK)
SCARBOROUGH: Coming up, courtroom or three-ring circus? The Anna Nicole chaos continues, with sworn testimony over who‘s really making money over Anna Nicole‘s death. But the medical examiner said you better hurry up or the body is not going to survive this hearing.
That story and a lot more straight ahead. But first, Britney Spears‘ bizarre behavior continues.
The pop princess leaves rehab less than 24 hours after checking in for the second time in less than a week. Now, this was Spears yesterday, bald and puffing on a cigarette at the Malibu treatment facility. What a long way she‘s fallen.
But what a difference 24 hours makes. TMZ cameras caught Britney leaving her lawyer‘s office earlier today. Her soon-to-be ex-husband Kevin Federline is going to be in court for an emergency hearing tomorrow related to the custody of their two children. So is Britney headed for a toxic disaster? And what about the financial consequences of her breakdown?
Here now to talk about it, former child star Danny Bonaduce. He‘s currently, of course, starring on VH-1‘s “Breaking Bonaduce” and also can be heard every morning on 97.1 Free FM on the West Coast. Also, “OK” magazine senior reporter Courtney Hazlett.
Courtney, let me begin with you. You‘ve got all the details on this case. Where is she right now? Do you know where she is tonight?
COURTNEY HAZLETT, “OK” MAGAZINE: Right now, we‘re told that she‘s checked into the Hotel Bel Air in L.A. And what‘s interesting here is that she checked in, and she was photographed carrying a puppy. I don‘t know if it‘s one of her old ones or a brand-new one, her gold card journal, her BlackBerry and a lighter.
So not much has changed on some level with Britney Spears, but what has changed is that this custody battle has taken a very, very sharp turn for the worst. Kevin Federline is expected in court tomorrow morning. They are reporting also that Britney is not going to be there, which is very interesting.
Today she visited an attorney, but it wasn‘t her divorce attorney. It wasn‘t somebody who might have something to do with this case tomorrow morning, if it is true that Kevin is going to be petitioning for emergency custody reevaluation. So the thing is, really...
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: ... the thing is, Courtney, she could not have had a nervous breakdown or whatever she‘s having right now at a worst time as far as these children go. I mean, is she basically giving the children up to K-Fed?
HAZLETT: I would think not. Everybody around Britney—I‘ve spoken to one of her former nannies at length—they‘ve said, you know what? She doesn‘t want Kevin to have the kids. She loves these kids tremendously. She‘s just at her wit‘s end. She doesn‘t know how to be the mom that she wants to be. She has no support system.
So the people surrounding Britney who care about her aren‘t saying that she wants the kids to go to Kevin; they‘re just saying she‘s gotten no idea what to do at this point. Her career is really dangerous.
SCARBOROUGH: Well, not only that, though, Courtney—OK, forget about the career for a second. Let‘s talk about this young woman. These people that are close to her, don‘t they say that right now she‘s engaged in a very destructive lifestyle?
HAZLETT: You‘re absolutely correct about that. In fact, this destructive lifestyle is what prompted her to shave her head, according to a lot of our sources. We‘re hearing that Kevin actually said to her, “Listen, I‘m going to get you drug-tested. I don‘t think you‘re a fit parent right now.” And she completely freaked out and shaved her head, because she didn‘t want her hair to be available for that.
SCARBOROUGH: Unbelievable.
And, of course, we had Dr. Drew Pinsky on with you last night. He‘s the author of “Cracked.” He told us he was afraid Britney could die if she didn‘t get help. Tonight, this is what he told us about Britney‘s decision to leave rehab.
“When patients are so apparent they can‘t take direction from a professional and leave impulsively against their advice, this tends to be a bad sign. In my experience in treating celebrities with addition, the circumstances are far worse than it appears.”
Danny, good time to bring you in right now. Boy, if there‘s nobody that can control a celebrity, a young celebrity, it can get pretty bad, pretty quickly, huh, from the very top to living behind a dumpster?
DANNY BONADUCE, RADIO HOST: Yes, I‘ll tell you that was certainly my experience. In 1972, I was voted one of the 50 most famous people in America. And in 1983, I lived in my car between Grauman‘s Chinese. So these things can, in fact, happen.
But let‘s take one thing at a time. Let‘s go with the custody battle. Some judge has to decide whether to give that innocent baby to the great white shark or the grizzly bear. There‘s not a great option here.
You know, Britney is a voice crying in the wilderness, like Isaiah. There‘s no one. When Courtney says “the people who care about her,” exactly who are they? Who are those people that are protecting her? Who are the people that are letting her shave her head and saying, “This is a good idea,” and driving her to the hotel?
(CROSSTALK)
SCARBOROUGH: Danny, how does that happen? I mean, you‘ve been around these type of situations. How does it happen where you get these stars that millions of people supposedly love, and yet they have—because Courtney said it before. She doesn‘t have girlfriends. She doesn‘t have anybody around her to take care of her. How does that happen, that you get so isolated at the top?
BONADUCE: Well, I will have to change topics for one minute to tell you that. Coincidentally, by the way, she checked into Promises, and I called just because I was curious. And honest to God, she had my old room. She was in my old room at Promises, and several other peoples‘, and she checked out again.
But here‘s what happens, and let‘s go to Anna Nicole Smith. In my opinion, somebody made the decision, “We can‘t stop her.” I personally feel it was Howard K. Smith. And so he decided, “I‘m going to continue to prop this woman up in front of cameras, and I‘m going to milk her until she dies.” And that‘s what he did. I personally feel that Howard K. Stern should be tried for at least manslaughter.
SCARBOROUGH: And are you suggesting that that may be happening with Britney, also?
BONADUCE: I think Britney has got—I happen to know Britney‘s father very well, and he could not be a more down-to-Earth man, but I don‘t know how often he can contact her. Imagine being a rebellious child with $135 million, and your dad‘s a working man.
SCARBOROUGH: Courtney?
HAZLETT: If I could just jump in here for a second, with all due respect to Danny, I know for a fact there are people around her who love her. Her mom, Lynne, is at her wit‘s end. At the end of this day, yes, you have a destructive celebrity. Yes, she has a contentious relationship with her father. I‘m told her father doesn‘t even have her current cell phone number.
But at the end of the day, she‘s still somebody‘s daughter. And as such, people do care about her. It‘s these transient hangers-on that are the ones who are, quote, “letting” Britney shave her head. She‘s still an adult.
(CROSSTALK)
BONADUCE: I‘ve got a question for you then. I‘ve got a question for you then, as long as you brought that up, because I think it‘s a fair question, Courtney. I really do. When you start to shave your head and get tattoos, when does your mother reach her wit‘s end? Because my mother, never.
HAZLETT: Well, you know what? Her mother got on a plane and flew out there. She‘d been calling Britney. We have sources that say that she was actually the person behind the assistant, Felicia‘s, letter that went on the Web site saying, “Britney, you need help.” Actually, Britney is reading these Web sites. She‘s reading the magazines.
BONADUCE: Was her mother there to tell her—was her mother there to tell her that her hair contains every chemical that she ingested, almost to the date, for the last 3 ½ years?
SCARBOROUGH: And, Courtney, I...
(CROSSTALK)
BONADUCE: You can tell by her hair if she was high during her pregnancy.
SCARBOROUGH: You know, Courtney, the thing that people find so fascinating about this story—and, of course, we could do stories about Iraq, Afghanistan, the war on terror, you name it. But people stop me on the street and ask me, why did she shave her hair? And everybody is starting to talk about this drug thing. Is that what it‘s looking like, Courtney, what Danny was just suggesting and what you‘ve talked about, that it really was to hide the fact that she may have been drugged up while she was pregnant?
HAZLETT: I have sources telling me that she‘s definitely taken drugs in the past. You know, she‘s been pregnant practically for the last two years, with a few exceptions.
Now, actually, her former husband, Jason Alexander, his sister has gone on the record saying, “I‘ve seen Britney Spears take drugs,” et cetera, et cetera. Now, who‘s to say if she‘s telling the truth?
But to answer your question as succinctly as possible, yes, I think the suspicion of drugs is a factor. Also, I think there‘s some—you know, not to be cute here—but symbolism, like, OK, guys, look at me now. If you think I‘m really, really losing it, now watch what I‘m going to do.
BONADUCE: Can I agree with you in graphic terms, Courtney? People want to start over, and they want to make incredible ovations of themselves, and they really want you to know they mean it. If you can get a shot of this, I don‘t know if you can. Do you see those big numbers right there?
SCARBOROUGH: Yes.
BONADUCE: You see them right there? That‘s my sobriety date. That‘s the date I quit drinking. Here‘s the problem with this big overture: It‘s wrong. I didn‘t make it. Just because I put a tattoo on my arm and I‘m stuck with those numbers forever doesn‘t mean I stopped drinking. She can shave her head. She can get a tattoo...
(CROSSTALK)
HAZLETT: Right, but you were doing the best you could at the time. No one‘s saying she‘s doing the right thing, but on some level, you have to say, OK, she‘s make overtures. At least that‘s a cry for help. At least she‘s doing something.
I know for a fact her mother is very concerned. I know for a fact that, no matter how estranged her father is or her brother is, they‘re concerned, too. So, at the end of the day, she‘s someone‘s daughter, she‘s somebody‘s sister, and they do care about her. And let‘s not forget, you‘ve got two little kids involved here. They‘re...
(CROSSTALK)
BONADUCE: I don‘t mean to be completely extreme here, but children chained to walls in the basement are somebody‘s daughter. You can‘t tell me that these people automatically care for her because biology. She‘s running amok. She‘s going to run herself into the ground. And if her mom wants to fly out here to watch it—and I don‘t know the woman—I‘m just saying, it doesn‘t automatically make them care.
HAZLETT: No one is saying it‘s going to have a happy ending. No one‘s saying that everything is going to work out great. At the end of the day, she‘s still her own person, with a lot of people “yes-ing” her until the sun comes up.
BONADUCE: By the way, I think she will make it. I want you to know, I think she will make it. I don‘t think she‘ll die.
SCARBOROUGH: And therein lies the problem. Hey, Danny, thank you so much. Courtney, if you want, you can show your tattoo on your arm right now. Do you want to do that or do you want to just wait until tomorrow night?
HAZLETT: No, I‘m saving it. I‘m saving it.
SCARBOROUGH: All right, save that. OK, very good.
All right. Thank you, Danny. As always, thank you, Courtney, as always.
Coming up next, the key players in the Anna Nicole case take the stand, as the judge tries to follow the money and figures out who‘s profiting off her death. The latest in this bizarre legal case, next.
And later in “Hollyweird,” is Lindsay Lohan leaving the country for good? Why the mean girl may be moving abroad, straight ahead.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCARBOROUGH: The battle for Anna Nicole Smith‘s body get even nastier. Today, the courtroom circus continued, with Howard K. Stern admitting under oath that Anna Nicole was on drugs while she was pregnant. Her mother accusing Stern of making money off of Anna Nicole. And Larry Birkhead saying that Stern‘s love for Anna Nicole was unrequited.
Well, MSNBC‘s Rita Crosby is there, still following all the strange twists and turns. She joins us live from Fort Lauderdale with the latest tonight. Rita, get us up to date on the bizarre goings-on today in the courtroom.
RITA COSBY, HOST: Well, Joe, it definitely was bizarre. And I would have to say, the most damning was the testimony of Howard K. Stern, the man who‘s been the longtime attorney for Anna Nicole Smith and the man who claims to be the father of her 5-month-old baby.
His testimony, by almost everybody‘s account, seemed very disingenuous. He seemed very nervous. And in fact, at one point, Joe, the judge even looked at him and said, “Don‘t embellish.” You could tell the judge was absolutely frustrated with him.
And the judge asked a lot of questions. In fact, he asked Mr. Stern, how often did Anna Nicole take drugs since the year 2000? What kind of prescription drugs did she take? And he looked at the judge and said, “Is that necessary?” And the judge said, “Yes, answer the question. Proceed. Stop pontificating.” It was really just courtroom drama, left to right.
And, in fact, it was interesting, because he did not say that he pleaded with Anna Nicole Smith to stop taking prescription drugs. A lot of people were surprised at that. What he did say was that he actually picked up some of the prescriptions. And he also said that, you know, basically what he said was he painted a picture of himself as someone who had no money and was living off the coattails of Anna Nicole Smith.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HOWARD K. STERN, ANNA NICOLE SMITH CONFIDANTE: I was with Anna. I was with Anna. My income was with her.
LARRY SEIDLIN, BROWARD COUNTY JUDGE: You had no separate, independent income?
STERN: No.
SEIDLIN: Who paid the rent?
STERN: I was—I told you, Anna paid my rent.
SEIDLIN: And when you went to a restaurant, who paid the check?
STERN: Anna paid for most things.
SEIDLIN: When you bought a pair of shoes, who paid for that?
STERN: How do you buy two pairs of shoes? But she did.
SEIDLIN: What‘s your source of income?
STERN: Right now?
SEIDLIN: Yes.
STERN: I‘m borrowing money from my parents.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
COSBY: And it gets worse, because after he was done, Joe, Larry Birkhead took the stand, again, the man who says that he‘s the real father of Anna Nicole Smith‘s baby. And he said—this is a bombshell in the courtroom—he said, in April 2006, when Anna Nicole Smith was several months pregnant with her baby, he went to visit her at a hospital. She was trying to wean herself off drugs.
And when the drugs ran out of the I.V., he says that Howard K. Stern came in, brought a duffle bag full of drugs, and administered the drugs to her. So not only was he claiming in court that he wasn‘t trying to get her off drugs, but made some damning statements coming from Larry Birkhead, again, all allegations at this point, but the allegations look very bad for this man, Joe.
SCARBOROUGH: Ugly, ugly, ugly. MSNBC‘s Rita Cosby in Fort Lauderdale. Thank you so much for that update. We‘ll see you tomorrow.
Now for some analysis on the bizarre case and the three major players on the stand today. Here‘s Jane Velez-Mitchell. Jane, take us inside the courtroom. What‘s the headline today?
JANE VELEZ-MITCHELL, INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER: Well, Rita hit the nail on the head: a very bad day for Howard K. Stern. I don‘t know how that‘s going to affect the burial, but I do think it could affect the paternity, because we finally got—connect the dots between Anna Nicole Smith, Howard K. Stern, money and drugs.
You heard it: He was freeloading off of her. Not only that, but he stood to make $6 million and still stands to make $6 million if the estate of Anna Nicole Smith wins its battle against the estate of the late J. Howard Marshall, the oil tycoon, late husband of Anna Nicole Smith.
So, clearly, he has a financial interest. Then when you add the drugs on top of that, clearly Anna Nicole Smith was a commodity. But when a person becomes a commodity and then they go on drugs, they‘re no longer in charge of their own commodity. So he was the puppet master. He was the svengali. He has zero credibility right now.
SCARBOROUGH: Jane, you‘re an investigative journalist. It certainly sounds like there‘s going to be a lot of investigating going on inside the courtroom and outside the courtroom about this man and about whether he really did keep her drugged so he could be the puppet master and just soak her dry of all of her money?
VELEZ-MITCHELL: Absolutely. Anna Nicole‘s mother, Virgie Arthur, said today: Listen, he was there when my grandson died. He was there when my daughter died. Now he has control of my granddaughter. I don‘t think he‘s the father. I‘m worried about my granddaughter. Please help.
She literally said, “Please help.” I think her concerns are extremely valid. We have a formal inquest coming up in late March in the Bahamas basically looking into why Daniel died. We all know that he had many drugs in his system.
SCARBOROUGH: Right. All right. Thank you so much, Jane Velez-Mitchell, greatly appreciate it.
Hey, make sure you tune into MSNBC tonight at 10:00 p.m. for :Anna Nicole Smith: The Legal Drama.” “Hollyweird” is next.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
SCARBOROUGH: Hey, tell your assistant that if he screws up your Starbucks order one more time, he‘s out. It‘s time for “Hollyweird.”
First up, Reese Witherspoon and George Clooney, the actors were recently spotted having dinner. And “InTouch Weekly” reports there may be sparks.
Here now to talk about it, “Star” magazine‘s Jill Dobson and, from VH-1‘s “Best Week Ever,” Cecily Knobler. Let me start with you, Jill. Clooney and Reese? What a pair, huh?
JILL DOBSON, “STAR” MAGAZINE: You know, we‘ll have to see. It sounds like the two of them had dinner to discuss a film project they might work on together. And, of course, since...
SCARBOROUGH: The old film project excuse, yes, of course.
DOBSON: So a lot of people are saying, oh, I think maybe there are sparks flying. But, you know, I think George is a lifelong bachelor. I think that it might have been just business this time.
SCARBOROUGH: Maybe so. Cecily, what do you know about this? Were you there, like at the next table, eavesdropping?
CECILY KNOBLER, VH-1‘S “BEST WEEK EVER”: I wish. Actually, the thing that‘s weird about it is that she and Ryan Phillippe allegedly broke up because he was too much of a player. So I don‘t think that George Clooney is really the next best step. I don‘t see him as like a stay-at-home, “let‘s play Scrabble” kind of guy, is he?
SCARBOROUGH: Yes, he‘s not a stay-at-home, TV dinner, playing Scrabble type of guy at all. Another person who‘s not a stay-at-home person, Lindsay Lohan. She‘s telling Britain‘s “Elle” magazine she likes London so much, she may just move there.
Cecily, I guess that means auto insurance rates about to skyrocket on the other side of the pond. What do you know about it?
KNOBLER: That‘s right. I think the most interesting part of that story is that Lindsay said she wants to be near her pal, ‘80s rocker Ryan Adams. Isn‘t that strange? I mean, what, were Hall and Oats too busy to party with her?
SCARBOROUGH: Exactly. What were you going to say, straight from the heart, what?
KNOBLER: I really hope that, if she does, if she goes there, I really hope that she adopts the Madonna fake British accent. I think that would be delightful for all of them.
SCARBOROUGH: I just love when people live in the United States for 20 or 30 years, and then go over to London for two weeks, and they come back with a wee bit of a British accent.
Speaking of British accents, ABC has announced that Heather Mills is going to be a contestant on “Dancing with the Stars.” Please, Jill, explain this to me.
DOBSON: Yes, that‘s true. And, you know, it‘s a big surprise to a lot of people, because Heather Mills lost a leg in a motorcycle accident in the early ‘90s, so a lot of people are amazed that she‘s going to be on this show. So it will be interesting to see.
And also, Heather Mills is universally hated in the U.K. I was speaking to someone who‘s British earlier today, and she said, “We just all hate her. She married Paul McCartney when he was still mourning the loss of his wife, Linda, and now she‘s taking all his money.” The Brits hate her.
So I think now that the Americans can get to know her, we might get a chance to hate her, as well.
SCARBOROUGH: Yes, exactly. We have a chance. And, Cecily, thank God your friend, Chelsea Handler, is not here. I won‘t tell you what she says about her one leg. But what do you think about the “Dancing” thing for Heather Mills?
KNOBLER: I think it‘s great, actually. And I really, really hope that, when she goes out there, her first song that she dances to is Kanye West‘s “Golddigger.” How great would that be?
SCARBOROUGH: I ain‘t saying. You know, thank God we‘re about to go off the air, because—well, I ain‘t saying she‘s a gold digger, but she ain‘t hanging with no broke—we‘ll see you tomorrow night!
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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